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+--- Thread: Vegetable oil law (/showthread.php?tid=2791)
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Vegetable oil law - Ricky - 15-04-2012
Anyone know if the law has changed recently in regards to using veg? I was always under the impression that 2500 litres can be used before paying duty as it said on HMRC website, but now that's all gone and it says that any use of alternative fuels is illegal without paying duty?
http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageExcise_ShowContent&id=HMCE_PROD1_024771&propertyType=document
Unsure what to do now, was going to run it during the summer, have just bought 60 litres aswell. Can't be bothered with all the hassle, will just go back to using diesel once the 60 litres is used up if it has changed. :nope:
Re: Vegetable oil law - ginge191 - 15-04-2012
personally stick 2 fingers up to them, i'm more than happy to do some behind bars to risk this, than pay tax money into the pockets of this shitty government.
Re: Vegetable oil law - strictly_perv - 15-04-2012
I was told this the otherday but wasn't sure still. I hope it's still legal, I rarely use it but it's a nice little money saver when I do.
Vegetable oil law - Jake - 15-04-2012
Hmm there is some interesting stuff on there =\
This especially " Important Note: It is illegal to run your car on any fuel substitute without having first paid us the duty."
However I will keep running veg In mine,
I like to live on the edge!
Re: Vegetable oil law - ginge191 - 15-04-2012
Toxic-Jake Wrote:Hmm there is some interesting stuff on there =\
This especially " Important Note: It is illegal to run your car on any fuel substitute without having first paid us the duty."
makes me sick
Re: Vegetable oil law - KrisB - 15-04-2012
Meh... I've always got a receipt for diesel that's within 7 days...
Vegetable oil law - Jake - 15-04-2012
ginge191 Wrote:Toxic-Jake Wrote:Hmm there is some interesting stuff on there =\
This especially " Important Note: It is illegal to run your car on any fuel substitute without having first paid us the duty."
makes me sick
You and me both! I would even be prepared to stand up and argue my case in court if anything did come of using it!
Knowing full well I would get nowhere, just think its fecking ridiculous.
Re: Vegetable oil law - Ricky - 15-04-2012
I'm not sure it's worth the risk for long term use. I will still use the 60 litres I have now, just do 50/50 with diesel so hopefully the fumes wont be quite as bad.
Re: Vegetable oil law - Jenkosowls - 15-04-2012
i think that what youve got there is for traders not private personal use as there lots of mentions of sole trader/traders etc but nothing about personal allowances ie everyday normal person. plus it mentions about tax reliefs etc usually associated with traders/buissness
Theres 100s of pages saying you can with limits against this one
Re: Vegetable oil law - Jenkosowls - 15-04-2012
UK
Before 2011: In the UK it is legal once duty on the fuel is paid, or, in the case of using or producing less than 2,500 litres per year, no duty is necessary.[12]
In the UK, drivers using SVO/PPO have in the past been prosecuted for failure to pay duty to Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs. The rate of taxation on SVO was originally set at a reduced rate of 27.1p per litre, but in late 2005, HMRC started to enforce the full diesel excise rate of 47.1p per litre.
HMRC argued that SVOs/PPOs on the market from small producers did not meet the official definition of "biodiesel" in Section 2AA of The Hydrocarbon Oil Duties Act 1979 (HODA), and consequently was merely a "fuel substitute" chargeable at the normal diesel rate. Such a policy seemed to contradict the UK Government's commitments to the Kyoto Protocol and to many EU directives and had many consequences, including an attempt to make the increase retroactive, with one organization being presented with a £16,000 back tax bill. This change in the rate of excise duty effectively removed any commercial incentive to use SVO/PPO, regardless of its desirability on environmental grounds; unless waste vegetable oil can be obtained free of charge, the combined price of SVO/PPO and taxation for its use usually exceeded the price of mineral diesel. HMRC's interpretation is widely challenged by the SVO/PPO industry and the UK pure Plant Oil Association (UKPPOA) was formed to represent the interests of people using vegetable oil as fuel and to lobby parliament.[13]
Following a review in late 2006,[14] HM Revenue & Customs has announced changes regarding the administration and collection of excise duty of biofuels and other fuel substitutes (Veg Oil). The changes came into effect on June 30, 2007. There is no longer a requirement to register to pay duty on vegetable oil used as road fuel for those who "produce" or use less than 2,500 litres per year.[15] For those producing over this threshold the biodiesel rate now applies.
In 2011, the Duties associated with the use of Biodiesel changed to reflect a flat rate of 20 pence per litre of biodiesel used. No lower threshold now exists.
Vegetable oil law - Jake - 15-04-2012
Jenkosowls Wrote:There is no longer a requirement to register to pay duty on vegetable oil used as road fuel for those who "produce" or use less than 2,500 litres per year.[15] For those producing over this threshold the biodiesel rate now applies.[/b]
In 2011, the Duties associated with the use of Biodiesel changed to reflect a flat rate of 20 pence per litre of biodiesel used. No lower threshold now exists.
Don't understand that! Can we use it tax free or not !
Re: Vegetable oil law - darrenjlobb - 15-04-2012
As normal, the government have made it stupidly overcomplicated, like every stupid thing else in our country.
I say carry on burning it 100% and tell them where to go if you get court, lets be honest its pretty unlikly you will get court, so for what you save, probs still worth it?
Re: Vegetable oil law - KrisB - 15-04-2012
Yes, tax free until 2500 litres.
Re: Vegetable oil law - Jenkosowls - 15-04-2012
in simple terms if your a buissness using bio fuel/veg you have to pay fuel duty from the first litre hence the 20p per litre flat rate. as you can claim this back in a tax relief Personal use there is a 2500l limit before tax
Re: Vegetable oil law - Toby - 15-04-2012
Just to clarify quickly, as HMRC spread this information all over their many many pages.
A few quotes:
Quote:Biodiesel is described in the law as a diesel quality* liquid fuel that is produced from biomass or waste cooking oil
Quote:*diesel quality means that the fuel is a substitute for diesel rather than petrol.
Quote:If you have produced or used less than 2,500 litres of:
any biofuel, or
any other fuel substitute or additive
within the last 12 months, and/or expect to produce or use less than 2,500 litres in the next 12 months, you are an exempt producer and do not need to register with us and account for duty.
Source: http://bit.ly/IUT0hd
If you use less than 2,500 litres per year, just keep records and don't worry about it.
Re: Vegetable oil law - Jenkosowls - 15-04-2012
i am well safe with the limits i use 20l per week times that by 52 equals 1,040l in my first 100l of veg iv saved around £50 compared to derv prices!
Re: Vegetable oil law - Joe - 16-04-2012
not being funny how can they check?
Re: Vegetable oil law - mark_airey - 16-04-2012
Joe Wrote:not being funny how can they check?
If you mean how can they check if your using veg, by the smell of chip shops that follow you around and if you mean about how much you use, because you are legally obliged to keep records, if you don't then they will just assume that you use more
Re: Vegetable oil law - Dum-Dum - 16-04-2012
Joe Wrote:not being funny how can they check?
They check your records.
Failing to keep records probably carries a punishment of what the estimate the duty to be on all the veg they estimate youve used for as long as they estimate youve been using veg. You can bet that would be more than you would actually of used too.
Just stick all your recipts (both diesel and veg) in a book and that should be fine. You can estimate mileage from MOT certificates.
Re: Vegetable oil law - Ruan - 16-04-2012
Well, essentially they can't - it'd be a royal f*ck on for them to attempt to prove you wrong... Innocent until proven guilty and all that...
For the home consumer, essentially it's just a thing of, don't be a dyke... Like if you use 2510l in a year, you're not going to have HMRC knocking on your for for 30p of tax... It's more to stop people using 50,000 litres and HMRC not getting a penny...
It'd be prudent, however, to keep logs in case of any dispute...
Re: Vegetable oil law - Ruan - 16-04-2012
Also notice this:
Quote:If you have produced or used less than 2,500 litres of:
any biofuel, or
any other fuel substitute or additive
within the last 12 months, and/or expect to produce or use less than 2,500 litres in the next 12 months, you are an exempt producer and do not need to register with us and account for duty.
That essentially means engine oil to me?
Re: Vegetable oil law - Eeyore - 16-04-2012
Sounds like they have cottoned onto the fact that people are putting it in their dervs and now they want to screw more money out of us for the tax we arent paying! Just do it!
Re: Vegetable oil law - Jonny81191 - 16-04-2012
all this is well and good, but has an individual (not a company) ever actually been "done" for running veg? Surely there's better things for HMRC to do with their time?
Re: Vegetable oil law - lolsteve - 17-04-2012
So if I use less than 2500 litres of biodiesel a year, then its ok?
Re: Vegetable oil law - Toby - 17-04-2012
lolsteve Wrote:So if I use less than 2500 litres of biodiesel a year, then its ok?
It's absolutely fine, just make sure you keep electronic/hard copies of your receipts as they can request that you provide these.
Re: Vegetable oil law - ginge191 - 17-04-2012
Ok so this record idea:
I get stopped by an officer with veg in the car, fair enough..
Officer: "Can i see your records please"
Me: "Sorry officer, this is my first time, i've jst come back from the shops.."
And so on, there is NO way any member of the government's policiing unit can monitor as and when you create a record, christ, i'd may as well keep in my glove box "Filled up with veg oil ___" and a recent date
Re: Vegetable oil law - lolsteve - 17-04-2012
Would it be the same thing If I bought bio heating oil, then used it as a biodiesel for personal use?
Re: Vegetable oil law - Toby - 17-04-2012
ginge191 Wrote:Ok so this record idea:
I get stopped by an officer with veg in the car, fair enough..
Officer: "Can i see your records please"
Me: "Sorry officer, this is my first time, i've jst come back from the shops.."
And so on, there is NO way any member of the government's policiing unit can monitor as and when you create a record, christ, i'd may as well keep in my glove box "Filled up with veg oil ___" and a recent date
Indeed it would be difficult for them to police this, and I doubt they really pay much attention.
However, it is still a good idea to keep records. It is entirely possible that the police make a note of the reg, or perhaps you may even be stopped by the same officer again?
Truth is that not many people even know that some cars can run on veg oil. I wouldn't expect my local bobby to be fully clued up with how it all works.
Re: Vegetable oil law - ginge191 - 17-04-2012
^^^^ ...... considering someone on here got stopped and the plod asked why he had 2 clocks
Those 2 "clocks" were his boost and oil gauge
Re: Vegetable oil law - Toby - 17-04-2012
ginge191 Wrote:^^^^ ...... considering someone on here got stopped and the plod asked why he had 2 clocks
Those 2 "clocks" were his boost and oil gauge
I did just lol a little bit
