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+--- Thread: Lucas and t2 tuning (/showthread.php?tid=26692)
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Lucas and t2 tuning - andyyy - 17-09-2014
Got my self a 405 d-turbo and going to use it as a daily just want some more poke out of it for now until my 205 is built
So im planning on using jammapic's lucas tuning guide - link
Iv had a quick look and the turbo has garret stamped on it so im assuming that its a T2 as the engine looks untouched
problem is i don't have a spare boost gauge cba to set one up on it and not massively bothered if it does blow up lol id rather it didn't though
so just thought i ask if anyone has a rough guess how much to adjust things to get around 20-25 psi for both turbo and max fuel
seems i just wind in the compensator until it stops smoking ?
RE: Lucas and gt15 tuning - toseland - 17-09-2014
The best way to tune a lucas?
remove it and fit a bosch...
but, seeing as you want to run without a boost guage, then the answer is there really isnt any way to do it, especially with the lucas, you really NEEED a boost gauge as every pump is slightly different, i acheived 15psi (up from 8) winding my fuel all the way in.. it didnt smoke at all but then i have no I/C or boost compensator on mine,
the problem with the lucas is you have to drain the pump to tweek it.. which is a ballache.
i would go with 90-135degrees of turn of the fuel screw, then fiddle with the compensator, run it, see how it feels, then do some more.
the problem with it is you wont know where you are boosting, without the gauge and it would be quite easy without knowing it to hit levels of boost that either start to bend things, or levels of EGR that start to melt things..
RE: Lucas and gt15 tuning - andyyy - 17-09-2014
I'll have a look round the work shop see what I can borrow as a boost gauge
Found a gauge that reads in bar so I'll just give it a shot with that
Also my pump has a big metal alen key type seal instead of the plastic one that you hit with a hammer and screwdriver to get undone , should make life simpler
RE: Lucas and gt15 tuning - Danny Wideboy - 17-09-2014
Lucky git, that makes life easier. Still have to catch all the diesel somehow but easier than using a chisel backwards.
RE: Lucas and gt15 tuning - andyyy - 17-09-2014
not soo lucky as it tuns out done everything by the guide and bled it all up and no fuel is coming out the pump wish i never touched it .... well tomorrow ill bosch it
i dont seem to have much luck with pumps keep killing the things really cannot work out what i have done wrong this has really P***ed me off !
RE: Lucas and gt15 tuning - daveylennon93 - 17-09-2014
I was boostin 1.6 bar on a lucas and t2 and max fuel screw wasnt near all the way screwed.
Sure ya didnt pull one of the cables bringin power to the pump when ya were at it?
RE: Lucas and gt15 tuning - andyyy - 17-09-2014
I took the stop solenoid out just in case and was just the same
I don't know what the rest of the electrics on the pump do so could be that I'll get a photo up
RE: Lucas and gt15 tuning - andyyy - 18-09-2014
alright so now im seeing (on my questionable accurate gauge) 0.7-0.8 bar boost so thats about 10-11psi with a light haze behind me so im going to up the wastegate now and see but i dont think ill see 20-25psi without more fueling.
So what can i do to claw some more fuel can i go any further with the max fuel or will it just shut off again ?
i know i could bosch it but just want to see what i can get from this as its my first lucas
RE: Lucas and t2 tuning - andyyy - 18-09-2014
Not a gt15 further inspections shows its a t2 and managed to get a bar of boost so like 14psi still after some more
Pretty sure I'm now hitting the fueling wall anyone know how to screw anymore out of this pump without it shutting off maybe wind the boost compensator out a bit more or 20degrees extra on the max fuel ?
RE: Lucas and t2 tuning - ADV_93 - 18-09-2014
Wind the max fuel as far as it will go, you want the boost compensator about 2-3 turns from being all the way in and remove the max revs screw that limits the travel of the throttle lever (at max). They're alright for stock turbochargers as you can see about 22 psi on one.
For tuning sake, a Bosch is LOADS better.
RE: Lucas and t2 tuning - andyyy - 18-09-2014
(18-09-2014, 05:02 PM)ADV_93 Wrote: Wind the max fuel as far as it will go, you want the boost compensator about 2-3 turns from being all the way in and remove the max revs screw that limits the travel of the throttle lever (at max). They're alright for stock turbochargers as you can see about 22 psi on one.
For tuning sake, a Bosch is LOADS better.
The boost compensator is 2 turns from being all the way in I could back it off a turn ?
Max revs screw already done
If I wind the max fuel another 45 degrees the pump will shut off , I don't know how much further I can go before it does shut off tho , does anyone know? Shall I just go in ten degree incruments till it does then back it off 5 degrees ?
Ahh okay so I'll never get more than 22 psi I might as well wind the actuator all the way in then and control just with fuel its wound 5 turns in ATM
I know a bosch is way better iv ran one on my 205 and there so easy to tune In comparison but I just want to get whatever I can out of this Lucas
Also temp gauge is starting to rise when I put my foot down so might take the stat out
RE: Lucas and t2 tuning - mr_fish - 19-09-2014
Don't take the stat out, put the spring the other side, and block off the pipe under the thermostat housing.
Forces water around the radiator more then.
RE: Lucas and t2 tuning - andyyy - 19-09-2014
(19-09-2014, 08:17 AM)mr_fish Wrote: Don't take the stat out, put the spring the other side, and block off the pipe under the thermostat housing.
Forces water around the radiator more then.
Dunno if I really like the idea of blocking off coolant pipes just going to cause hot spots inside the engine surely ?
Putting the heater on is enough to bring it back down
RE: Lucas and t2 tuning - andyyy - 19-09-2014
So strait through now, now seeing a bar of boost and cooling issues have gone away so guess I was getting some high egt's before
Now seeing white smoke behind me not loads but noticeable guess I need to advance the pump and see how that goes
RE: Lucas and t2 tuning - ADV_93 - 19-09-2014
(18-09-2014, 07:28 PM)andyyy Wrote:(18-09-2014, 05:02 PM)ADV_93 Wrote: Wind the max fuel as far as it will go, you want the boost compensator about 2-3 turns from being all the way in and remove the max revs screw that limits the travel of the throttle lever (at max). They're alright for stock turbochargers as you can see about 22 psi on one.
For tuning sake, a Bosch is LOADS better.
The boost compensator is 2 turns from being all the way in I could back it off a turn ?
Max revs screw already done
If I wind the max fuel another 45 degrees the pump will shut off , I don't know how much further I can go before it does shut off tho , does anyone know? Shall I just go in ten degree incruments till it does then back it off 5 degrees ?
Ahh okay so I'll never get more than 22 psi I might as well wind the actuator all the way in then and control just with fuel its wound 5 turns in ATM
I know a bosch is way better iv ran one on my 205 and there so easy to tune In comparison but I just want to get whatever I can out of this Lucas
Also temp gauge is starting to rise when I put my foot down so might take the stat out
I gauged the compensator with the amount of lag the turbocharger gave. It's trial and error, but you will get to a sweet spot where the turbo will spool harder and earlier. Some Lucas pumps (luckily mine did) can be wound all the way in and not struggle to start, so again it's trial and error, if it does, back it off a little bit.
As a rule i use fuelling to control the boosting. If you're limiting the boost and getting smoke ON boost, then you're not burning properly. It's best to just wind the wastegate all the way in (K14) or shorten the bar as much as possible (T2/GT15) (or just fit an MBC). This way the turbocharger can only create the same amount of boost for the fuel being injected. Don't worry too much about over boosting or anything, like i said on a stock turbo they don't tend to go over 22-24 psi.
I ran a TD04 with a welded wastegate on a Lucas pump and it actually went surprisingly well. The Bosch is just a lot better for compensation on boost and fuel that can be delivered when you need it.
RE: Lucas and t2 tuning - andyyy - 19-09-2014
(19-09-2014, 03:20 PM)ADV_93 Wrote:(18-09-2014, 07:28 PM)andyyy Wrote:(18-09-2014, 05:02 PM)ADV_93 Wrote: Wind the max fuel as far as it will go, you want the boost compensator about 2-3 turns from being all the way in and remove the max revs screw that limits the travel of the throttle lever (at max). They're alright for stock turbochargers as you can see about 22 psi on one.
For tuning sake, a Bosch is LOADS better.
The boost compensator is 2 turns from being all the way in I could back it off a turn ?
Max revs screw already done
If I wind the max fuel another 45 degrees the pump will shut off , I don't know how much further I can go before it does shut off tho , does anyone know? Shall I just go in ten degree incruments till it does then back it off 5 degrees ?
Ahh okay so I'll never get more than 22 psi I might as well wind the actuator all the way in then and control just with fuel its wound 5 turns in ATM
I know a bosch is way better iv ran one on my 205 and there so easy to tune In comparison but I just want to get whatever I can out of this Lucas
Also temp gauge is starting to rise when I put my foot down so might take the stat out
I gauged the compensator with the amount of lag the turbocharger gave. It's trial and error, but you will get to a sweet spot where the turbo will spool harder and earlier. Some Lucas pumps (luckily mine did) can be wound all the way in and not struggle to start, so again it's trial and error, if it does, back it off a little bit.
As a rule i use fuelling to control the boosting. If you're limiting the boost and getting smoke ON boost, then you're not burning properly. It's best to just wind the wastegate all the way in (K14) or shorten the bar as much as possible (T2/GT15) (or just fit an MBC). This way the turbocharger can only create the same amount of boost for the fuel being injected. Don't worry too much about over boosting or anything, like i said on a stock turbo they don't tend to go over 22-24 psi.
I ran a TD04 with a welded wastegate on a Lucas pump and it actually went surprisingly well. The Bosch is just a lot better for compensation on boost and fuel that can be delivered when you need it.
Okay so now that I'm seeing white smoke on boost I should shorten the bar on the T2 some more and I'll see more boost rather than advancing the pump ?
RE: Lucas and t2 tuning - ADV_93 - 19-09-2014
(19-09-2014, 03:58 PM)andyyy Wrote:(19-09-2014, 03:20 PM)ADV_93 Wrote:(18-09-2014, 07:28 PM)andyyy Wrote: The boost compensator is 2 turns from being all the way in I could back it off a turn ?
Max revs screw already done
If I wind the max fuel another 45 degrees the pump will shut off , I don't know how much further I can go before it does shut off tho , does anyone know? Shall I just go in ten degree incruments till it does then back it off 5 degrees ?
Ahh okay so I'll never get more than 22 psi I might as well wind the actuator all the way in then and control just with fuel its wound 5 turns in ATM
I know a bosch is way better iv ran one on my 205 and there so easy to tune In comparison but I just want to get whatever I can out of this Lucas
Also temp gauge is starting to rise when I put my foot down so might take the stat out
I gauged the compensator with the amount of lag the turbocharger gave. It's trial and error, but you will get to a sweet spot where the turbo will spool harder and earlier. Some Lucas pumps (luckily mine did) can be wound all the way in and not struggle to start, so again it's trial and error, if it does, back it off a little bit.
As a rule i use fuelling to control the boosting. If you're limiting the boost and getting smoke ON boost, then you're not burning properly. It's best to just wind the wastegate all the way in (K14) or shorten the bar as much as possible (T2/GT15) (or just fit an MBC). This way the turbocharger can only create the same amount of boost for the fuel being injected. Don't worry too much about over boosting or anything, like i said on a stock turbo they don't tend to go over 22-24 psi.
I ran a TD04 with a welded wastegate on a Lucas pump and it actually went surprisingly well. The Bosch is just a lot better for compensation on boost and fuel that can be delivered when you need it.
Okay so now that I'm seeing white smoke on boost I should shorten the bar on the T2 some more and I'll see more boost rather than advancing the pump ?
White smoke/Grey smoke is incomplete combustion. Have you advanced/retarded the timing at all?
RE: Lucas and t2 tuning - andyyy - 19-09-2014
(19-09-2014, 04:05 PM)ADV_93 Wrote:(19-09-2014, 03:58 PM)andyyy Wrote:(19-09-2014, 03:20 PM)ADV_93 Wrote: I gauged the compensator with the amount of lag the turbocharger gave. It's trial and error, but you will get to a sweet spot where the turbo will spool harder and earlier. Some Lucas pumps (luckily mine did) can be wound all the way in and not struggle to start, so again it's trial and error, if it does, back it off a little bit.
As a rule i use fuelling to control the boosting. If you're limiting the boost and getting smoke ON boost, then you're not burning properly. It's best to just wind the wastegate all the way in (K14) or shorten the bar as much as possible (T2/GT15) (or just fit an MBC). This way the turbocharger can only create the same amount of boost for the fuel being injected. Don't worry too much about over boosting or anything, like i said on a stock turbo they don't tend to go over 22-24 psi.
I ran a TD04 with a welded wastegate on a Lucas pump and it actually went surprisingly well. The Bosch is just a lot better for compensation on boost and fuel that can be delivered when you need it.
Okay so now that I'm seeing white smoke on boost I should shorten the bar on the T2 some more and I'll see more boost rather than advancing the pump ?
White smoke/Grey smoke is incomplete combustion. Have you advanced/retarded the timing at all?
Haven't touched the timing
Literally all I have done is wound the max fuel up 90 degrees then back 45 cause it shut off and wound the compensator all the way in then out 2 turns
And wound the bar on the T2 shorter by 5 turns
Its a 1.8 BTW
RE: Lucas and t2 tuning - ADV_93 - 19-09-2014
Usually white smoke is coolant. Although i did see on a very rare occasion a turbocharger on a friends car blew and puffed greyish/almost white smoke...
RE: Lucas and t2 tuning - andyyy - 19-09-2014
(19-09-2014, 06:14 PM)ADV_93 Wrote: Usually white smoke is coolant. Although i did see on a very rare occasion a turbocharger on a friends car blew and puffed greyish/almost white smoke...
Cars not using coolant or oil and turbo seems fine blows a bit of oil but not much more than others iv had / seen
Can't tell whether its white or grey (back window is filthy)
I though white / grey smoke meant the pump needs to be advanced ?
RE: Lucas and t2 tuning - Piggy - 19-09-2014
Clean the window and report back
Whats the boost at now?
RE: Lucas and t2 tuning - andyyy - 19-09-2014
(19-09-2014, 07:11 PM)Piggy Wrote: Clean the window and report back
Whats the boost at now?
I'll do it tomorrow before I start work on the 205
Boost is at 1 bar now so 14ish psi
RE: Lucas and t2 tuning - ADV_93 - 19-09-2014
(19-09-2014, 07:14 PM)andyyy Wrote:(19-09-2014, 07:11 PM)Piggy Wrote: Clean the window and report back
Whats the boost at now?
I'll do it tomorrow before I start work on the 205
Boost is at 1 bar now so 14ish psi
Is that 90 degrees from stock, or 90 degrees from max? (On the max fuelling)
RE: Lucas and t2 tuning - andyyy - 19-09-2014
(19-09-2014, 07:20 PM)ADV_93 Wrote:(19-09-2014, 07:14 PM)andyyy Wrote:(19-09-2014, 07:11 PM)Piggy Wrote: Clean the window and report back
Whats the boost at now?
I'll do it tomorrow before I start work on the 205
Boost is at 1 bar now so 14ish psi
Is that 90 degrees from stock, or 90 degrees from max? (On the max fuelling)
Err currently its 45 degrees from stock
If I go 90 degrees from stock the pump shuts off
RE: Lucas and t2 tuning - Piggy - 19-09-2014
I'd say need more boost.
RE: Lucas and t2 tuning - ADV_93 - 19-09-2014
(19-09-2014, 07:28 PM)andyyy Wrote:(19-09-2014, 07:20 PM)ADV_93 Wrote:(19-09-2014, 07:14 PM)andyyy Wrote: I'll do it tomorrow before I start work on the 205
Boost is at 1 bar now so 14ish psi
Is that 90 degrees from stock, or 90 degrees from max? (On the max fuelling)
Err currently its 45 degrees from stock
If I go 90 degrees from stock the pump shuts off
I went about 1 1/2 turns of the max fuelling before i hit the stop... But if it's been tuned before it would be boosting above 14 psi...
RE: Lucas and t2 tuning - andyyy - 19-09-2014
(19-09-2014, 07:43 PM)ADV_93 Wrote:(19-09-2014, 07:28 PM)andyyy Wrote:(19-09-2014, 07:20 PM)ADV_93 Wrote: Is that 90 degrees from stock, or 90 degrees from max? (On the max fuelling)
Err currently its 45 degrees from stock
If I go 90 degrees from stock the pump shuts off
I went about 1 1/2 turns of the max fuelling before i hit the stop... But if it's been tuned before it would be boosting above 14 psi...
Definatley hasn't been touched before 100℅ originally all the seals were there before I touched it
I wonder of the 1.7 pumps are slightly different I know the Bosch on my 205 was like a mini version of a 306 Bosch
(19-09-2014, 07:40 PM)Piggy Wrote: I'd say need more boost.
Yeah I think I'll up the boost to max tomorrow and let it run off fueling
RE: Lucas and t2 tuning - ADV_93 - 19-09-2014
(19-09-2014, 08:17 PM)andyyy Wrote:(19-09-2014, 07:43 PM)ADV_93 Wrote:(19-09-2014, 07:28 PM)andyyy Wrote: Err currently its 45 degrees from stock
If I go 90 degrees from stock the pump shuts off
I went about 1 1/2 turns of the max fuelling before i hit the stop... But if it's been tuned before it would be boosting above 14 psi...
Definatley hasn't been touched before 100℅ originally all the seals were there before I touched it
I wonder of the 1.7 pumps are slightly different I know the Bosch on my 205 was like a mini version of a 306 Bosch
(19-09-2014, 07:40 PM)Piggy Wrote: I'd say need more boost.
Yeah I think I'll up the boost to max tomorrow and let it run off fueling
I thought you were running a 1.9 pump mate?
RE: Lucas and t2 tuning - Piggy - 19-09-2014
14psi is about dturbo normal psi...
So for the added fuel it defo wants more boost.
Oh and it needs a bosch. All the fiddling and you could have earned and fitted one by now!!!
RE: Lucas and t2 tuning - andyyy - 19-09-2014
(19-09-2014, 08:33 PM)ADV_93 Wrote:(19-09-2014, 08:17 PM)andyyy Wrote:(19-09-2014, 07:43 PM)ADV_93 Wrote: I went about 1 1/2 turns of the max fuelling before i hit the stop... But if it's been tuned before it would be boosting above 14 psi...
Definatley hasn't been touched before 100℅ originally all the seals were there before I touched it
I wonder of the 1.7 pumps are slightly different I know the Bosch on my 205 was like a mini version of a 306 Bosch
(19-09-2014, 07:40 PM)Piggy Wrote: I'd say need more boost.
Yeah I think I'll up the boost to max tomorrow and let it run off fueling
I thought you were running a 1.9 pump mate?
Well the engine is a 1.8 keep calling them 1.7s by accident I blame the workshop manual so im running whatever pump comes with one of those only thing I'm sure of its a Lucas and a t2
(19-09-2014, 08:46 PM)Piggy Wrote: 14psi is about dturbo normal psi...
So for the added fuel it defo wants more boost.
Oh and it needs a bosch. All the fiddling and you could have earned and fitted one by now!!!
Lol I'm interested as to what I can get out of this lucas well the boost started off at like 0.5 bar so its made a significant increase in power maybe the turbo is just dying ...
And I have wound the bar on the actuator shorter by about five turns so iv upped it just not enough yet
Before anyone says there arent any boost leaks I checked that