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+--- Thread: Stage 2 and Above Owners (Past and Present) (/showthread.php?tid=26112)
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Stage 2 and Above Owners (Past and Present) - MY95 - 22-08-2014
How many miles have/had you done stage 2 and/or above?
Anyone had any issues?
Cheers
RE: Stage 2 and Above Owners (Past and Present) - Slam Wagon - 22-08-2014
7k on stage 3. Other than teathing problems touch wood been sweet.
RE: Stage 2 and Above Owners (Past and Present) - MY95 - 22-08-2014
(22-08-2014, 12:35 PM)Slam Wagon Wrote: 7k on stage 3. Other than teathing problems touch wood been sweet.
Cheers!
What teething problems have you had?
RE: Stage 2 and Above Owners (Past and Present) - Slam Wagon - 22-08-2014
Overboosting and breaking stuff. But that was my bad.
RE: Stage 2 and Above Owners (Past and Present) - MY95 - 22-08-2014
(22-08-2014, 12:51 PM)Slam Wagon Wrote: Overboosting and breaking stuff. But that was my bad.
Oh right, fair enough!
Cant wait to get mine running Stage 2! I enjoy Stage 1... When it runs/pulls well!
RE: Stage 2 and Above Owners (Past and Present) - jammapic - 22-08-2014
My old stage 3 is still going strong. The car is on 230k now, and has done about 120k on stage 2 and 20k at stage 3
RE: Stage 2 and Above Owners (Past and Present) - MY95 - 22-08-2014
(22-08-2014, 12:59 PM)jammapic Wrote: My old stage 3 is still going strong. The car is on 230k now, and has done about 120k on stage 2 and 20k at stage 3
Jesus christ thats lasted well! Have the injectors been renewed as well as the other parts that are likely to suffer at any point? Would be nice to see the new owner of that car on the forum
RE: Stage 2 and Above Owners (Past and Present) - jammapic - 22-08-2014
It's been through a number of sets of injectors, and the motor did get a refresh before it went to stage 2.
RE: Stage 2 and Above Owners (Past and Present) - MY95 - 22-08-2014
(22-08-2014, 01:53 PM)jammapic Wrote: It's been through a number of sets of injectors, and the motor did get a refresh before it went to stage 2.
Fair enough, still going well if its handling Stage 3 power at 230k! Would be happy if I kept mine at Stage 1 if it went to that mileage!
RE: Stage 2 and Above Owners (Past and Present) - Poodle - 23-08-2014
Tbh if you build something properly and drive and maintain it sympathetically there's no reason it shouldn't go on for years.
RE: Stage 2 and Above Owners (Past and Present) - MY95 - 23-08-2014
(23-08-2014, 07:15 AM)Poodle Wrote: Tbh if you build something properly and drive and maintain it sympathetically there's no reason it shouldn't go on for years.
Fair point Poodle, but who drives a Stage 2 or Stage 3 sympathetically? Not many people, otherwise they wouldnt be tuning their car at all
RE: Stage 2 and Above Owners (Past and Present) - Poodle - 23-08-2014
Speak for yourself hahaha! I think the problem is probably more the lack of understanding of the line between driving "quickly, yet sympathetically" and "like a twat".
Driving quickly or hard doesn't mean to you have to smash every gear change in on full throttle, for example. Or tuning and driving that hard, but then sticking to normal service schedules seems to be another popular one... 
RE: Stage 2 and Above Owners (Past and Present) - MY95 - 23-08-2014
(23-08-2014, 07:51 AM)Poodle Wrote: Speak for yourself hahaha! I think the problem is probably more the lack of understanding of the line between driving "quickly, yet sympathetically" and "like a twat".
Yeah your right, depends on the person really, ive got a few mates with Stage 2's that just abuse them aha, to be homest I think everyone does a little bit aha, I know I would
RE: Stage 2 and Above Owners (Past and Present) - DeeTurbo - 23-08-2014
I think one of the biggest problems is people driving them hard from cold.
RE: Stage 2 and Above Owners (Past and Present) - bashbarnard - 23-08-2014
Ive never had a hdi. But I can confirm from xuds that I had a tunes one at 17 you can imagine how I drove and it kept breaking. Ive had a few since my last one was running 25psi for ages. Was on 175,000 miles when.i first got it. Had been looked after. Regualr servicing, not once did I have a problem with any after that
RE: Stage 2 and Above Owners (Past and Present) - MY95 - 23-08-2014
(23-08-2014, 09:00 AM)DeeTurbo Wrote: I think one of the biggest problems is people driving them hard from cold.
Id agree, certainly not good for the engine
(23-08-2014, 09:12 AM)bashbarnard Wrote: Ive never had a hdi. But I can confirm from xuds that I had a tunes one at 17 you can imagine how I drove and it kept breaking. Ive had a few since my last one was running 25psi for ages. Was on 175,000 miles when.i first got it. Had been looked after. Regualr servicing, not once did I have a problem with any after that
Just goes to show that the old diesels do go on for ages! Even in tuned form, cheers!
RE: Stage 2 and Above Owners (Past and Present) - Poodle - 23-08-2014
I'd say that's more an example of how treating the car with respect will make a big difference to longevity. Honestly, there is nothing else that will affect reliability more imo.
Going back to the question of issues other people have had, the main ones seem to be problems with back-pressure and over-boosting, resulting in broken rockers and wrecked turbos for the most part. Only way to solve that is either drive accordingly or to free up flow on the exhaust side - so you NEED boost and emp gauges. That way you can just drive with an eye on the emps and boost and back off when they get excessive, or adjust the turbo as necessary. Or you just fit a big enough turbo that it's no longer an issue, could port the exhaust manifold if the turbo isn't enough by itself.
Mine was running an estimated 140/240 in it's last state of tune, it was still going strong after 30k of hard abuse. However, the turbo was pretty well-worn and the valve train was beginning to sound slightly noisy. Causes: turbo too small; all of the red line; a few track sessions; 500 miles of mountain passes; the nurburgring; etc, etc. Not bad really, i thought.
RE: Stage 2 and Above Owners (Past and Present) - MY95 - 23-08-2014
(23-08-2014, 11:45 AM)Poodle Wrote: I'd say that's more an example of how treating the car with respect will make a big difference to longevity. Honestly, there is nothing else that will affect reliability more imo.
Going back to the question of issues other people have had, the main ones seem to be problems with back-pressure and over-boosting, resulting in broken rockers and wrecked turbos for the most part. Only way to solve that is either drive accordingly or to free up flow on the exhaust side - so you NEED boost and emp gauges. That way you can just drive with an eye on the emps and boost and back off when they get excessive, or adjust the turbo as necessary. Or you just fit a big enough turbo that it's no longer an issue, could port the exhaust manifold if the turbo isn't enough by itself.
Mine was running an estimated 140/240 in it's last state of tune, it was still going strong after 30k of hard abuse. However, the turbo was pretty well-worn and the valve train was beginning to sound slightly noisy. Causes: turbo too small; all of the red line; a few track sessions; 500 miles of mountain passes; the nurburgring; etc, etc. Not bad really, i thought.
Id agree with all of the above
So basically just run as free of an exhaust as you can get a hold of, and check over everything more often
Thats good! Especially due to the type of miles youve done
RE: Stage 2 and Above Owners (Past and Present) - Poodle - 24-08-2014
Pretty much, i'd really recommend finding a bigger turbo mind. Almost everybody who has run stage 2 for long has run into these issues, so a bigger turbo should be part of the "stage 2" tuning package imo.
RE: Stage 2 and Above Owners (Past and Present) - MY95 - 24-08-2014
(24-08-2014, 06:44 AM)Poodle Wrote: Pretty much, i'd really recommend finding a bigger turbo mind. Almost everybody who has run stage 2 for long has run into these issues, so a bigger turbo should be part of the "stage 2" tuning package imo.
Fair enough, sounds as if Stage 2 is reducing reliability/parts longeivity compared to stage 1 unless you spend £££
Although a bigger turbo is usually part of Stage 3 isnt it? Would your preference be GT17 or GT20 then?
RE: Stage 2 and Above Owners (Past and Present) - Poodle - 26-08-2014
Tuning anything will reduce reliability and longevity, that's part of the gig. Hence why i keep banging on about needing to look after them better.
Yes, you need to spend money compared to a stage 1, but then we're lucky in that we can get so much extra power out of a stage 1 where these engines were so detuned from the factory. You're better off comparing it to what the vag boys pay for a similar set-up, that'll give you a more realistic idea of what tuning costs.
Until recently people haven't bothered with a larger turbo until they're planning on passing the fmic stage, but as i said above, using the stock turbo on a stage 2 is what's been causing people all the issues with back-pressure and blown heads. That's what tuning is all about - find the next restriction and work from there. It should make a significant difference to how well the motor lasts and for the sake of another £200 tops (half the price of a decent clutch, remember), you'd be mad not to imo.
Which turbo you go for depends on how you want the car to drive - do you want a tow car or a track car? A renault van gt1749 would give it a touch more flow but keep the quick spool, saab petrol 1752 would be slower to spool but very revvy, landrover 2052 would be somewhere in the middle but flow more than both.
RE: Stage 2 and Above Owners (Past and Present) - MY95 - 08-09-2014
Yeah your right, more pressure on engine parts due to more fuel going through/parts running faster
Yeah the VAG boys pay a lot past a simple remap compared to the HDI boys, and they cost a lot more to buy too
Yes ive heard the GT15 is pretty small, spools up well though!
At least HDI tuning is pretty cheap and bits to come by are easily found
Id have a turbo like the GT15 which spools up very quickly and dies out at around 4k, love the pull of a diesel from 2k as you touch the pedal
Whats the max bhp and torque you can go on an intercooled HDI without faffing on with an MBC/Boost Guage?
RE: Stage 2 and Above Owners (Past and Present) - jammapic - 08-09-2014
You'd be daft not to fit an MBC and boost gauge to be honest.
RE: Stage 2 and Above Owners (Past and Present) - MY95 - 08-09-2014
Id agree but I want to keep the costs down, and reliabilty and mpg up as much as possiblewhile still being quite quick, whats your thoughts Jammapic? Currently got a Stage 1 map with no other mods, want to go Stage 2 but I have the Rallye to enjoy for a while first, which do/did you enjoy more the HDI or the GTI6 and why?
RE: Stage 2 and Above Owners (Past and Present) - jammapic - 08-09-2014
They are both very different. If I were mapping it and you weren't putting an MBC or boost gauge on it I reckon 140hp or so should be OK at stock boost.
RE: Stage 2 and Above Owners (Past and Present) - MY95 - 08-09-2014
(08-09-2014, 08:50 PM)jammapic Wrote: They are both very different. If I were mapping it and you weren't putting an MBC or boost gauge on it I reckon 140hp or so should be OK at stock boost.
Which do you prefer and why? If you had then both still which would sell if you had to only have one? What torque would that be pushing?
Cheers
To be honest id be happy with 140, I just want a bit more without fiddling on with turbos and turbo pipes and stuff, hence keepibg it reliable with less stuff to check over
RE: Stage 2 and Above Owners (Past and Present) - jammapic - 08-09-2014
I'd say probably 260/270lbft I guess mate.
Which do I prefer, my gti6, why because its a better track car. The HDi was immense, 350lbft and near 200hp along with 50+mpg. Excellent!!
RE: Stage 2 and Above Owners (Past and Present) - MY95 - 08-09-2014
Id be happy with 140bhp/240/250 lb ft to be honest... Wouldnt be uprating clutch, although I have a spare brand new valeo to go in if need be
Is it quite safe to get 250+ lb ft without upping the boost on the turbo? Im guessing it would be quite smokey due to not having the higher boost?
Fair enough, they sound a lot better than HDI's too, im impressed you could get 50mpg+ out of it at that level of tune!
RE: Stage 2 and Above Owners (Past and Present) - jammapic - 08-09-2014
I doubt it would be that smokey really... Any which way, with a stock clutch you'd have to limit the torque a bit
RE: Stage 2 and Above Owners (Past and Present) - MY95 - 08-09-2014
Oh right I see, sound! Apparently 250 lb ft is the limit ive read on here?