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+--- Thread: Kyboshed (/showthread.php?tid=25106)
Kyboshed - unclebeast - 07-07-2014
My desire was to purchase an xud9te to uprate my nad, this morning I had to contact my car insurance so I ran it all past them, almost identical engine, only 22 hp increase...etc...etc...
Engineers report was the first hurdle presented to me, then 666 (not the mark of the beast but quid for fully comp), then there`s the potential for the "HP Modification" that Darren rightly mentions (as a disclaimer)...to "inform your insurer" if you tweak the car.
It has dawned on me that I cant afford it and to be honest to the car insurance (which I would want to be)is going to cost me big time. I have only posted 4 times, but if anyone wants a genuine 82000 mile xud9te engine with log book mots etc proof...contact me, Im in Manchester, £200 quid is the price...the dream has died!
RE: Kyboshed - r3k1355 - 07-07-2014
Is it not cheaper to just buy a TD or HDi car and insure that??
RE: Kyboshed - toseland - 07-07-2014
probably cheaper just to do that..
engineers report is a formality.. just get a friendly garage man to go over it and make sure all the bolts are in and tight and that its not gonna spit the engine out at 70 on the motorway,
this should be easy enough to get for a few pennies and a headed letter.
Also, look at some more specialist Unsurers... like sureterm or adrian flux., i am currently with AF with my vitara which is standard, but my previous one was lifted, manifold, throttle body, suspension modification, huge mud tyres, winch bumper etc and all declared, didnt increase my premium at all
RE: Kyboshed - unclebeast - 07-07-2014
(07-07-2014, 09:40 AM)r3k1355 Wrote: Is it not cheaper to just buy a TD or HDi car and insure that??
Looks like the best option with the benefit of hindsight, just happened to have a nad minter and sourced a genuine good donor td...didnt do my homework...
RE: Kyboshed - toseland - 07-07-2014
if its mint.. why not swap out EVERYTHING on the TD into it and reregister it with a colour change..
you can keep the original registration, go for a respray and replace the chassis plates..
the spec for the TD will not have changed, the power and running gear also.
are they the same colour?
RE: Kyboshed - unclebeast - 07-07-2014
(07-07-2014, 09:57 AM)toseland Wrote: if its mint.. why not swap out EVERYTHING on the TD into it and reregister it with a colour change..I travelled to Frampton Cotteral near Bristol and actually got the lump only off Tim,A sound and knowledgeable car mech/racer (ford pinto), rest had been scrapped sadly! didnt want another sorn vehicle so had a long hunt for the right mill, this then came along...Having been tempted by the youtube TD stuff that the talented Mr Lobb had streamed!
you can keep the original registration, go for a respray and replace the chassis plates..
the spec for the TD will not have changed, the power and running gear also.
are they the same colour?
Had a td saloon that was great fun even with 92 hp but it got written off by a ford focus that drove away after fully crumpling my back/boot/door pillars etc...etc...
RE: Kyboshed - toseland - 07-07-2014
(07-07-2014, 10:05 AM)unclebeast Wrote:(07-07-2014, 09:57 AM)toseland Wrote: if its mint.. why not swap out EVERYTHING on the TD into it and reregister it with a colour change..I travelled to Frampton Cotteral near Bristol and actually got the lump only off Tim,A sound and knowledgeable car mech/racer (ford pinto), rest had been scrapped sadly! didnt want another sorn vehicle so had a long hunt for the right mill, this then came along...Having been tempted by the youtube TD stuff that the talented Mr Lobb had streamed!
you can keep the original registration, go for a respray and replace the chassis plates..
the spec for the TD will not have changed, the power and running gear also.
are they the same colour?
Had a td saloon that was great fun even with 92 hp but it got written off by a ford focus that drove away after fully crumpling my back/boot/door pillars etc...etc...
would still be worth having a chat with someone like adrian flux... have a look at the advertising insurance companies in the traders section on here,. "regular" insurance companies dont deal, or understand modifications to cars very well, and hence have a fit when you mention the modifications to them..
RE: Kyboshed - nominous - 07-07-2014
(07-07-2014, 09:57 AM)toseland Wrote: if its mint.. why not swap out EVERYTHING on the TD into it and reregister it with a colour change..
you can keep the original registration, go for a respray and replace the chassis plates..
the spec for the TD will not have changed, the power and running gear also.
I'm curious, in what way is that legal ?
From the point of view that you've changed the chassis plates to something else - which I understand happens a lot with classics and also racers/rally cars, where an original set of VIN plates and the chassis number chop can be worth a lot from a stuffed shell - but it smells of ringing so I'm not sure how you get around that ?
But from the point of view of insurance, it's still modified. The original car is no more, it's a new chassis, so still an engine swap, but also a chassis, interior, everything swap and thus still you must declare it.
Would you be 100% sure that the NAD and TD chassis were identical ?
Holes, captive nuts and even metal thickness or bracing can different between models - you'd have to be sure that it was 100% like for like to suggest there were no modification from factory spec - other than welds around the chassis number
Just very fishy territory unless you are declaring modified anyway.
RE: Kyboshed - daveylennon93 - 07-07-2014
(07-07-2014, 03:39 PM)nominous Wrote:Id say its illegal but sure who'd know the difference.(07-07-2014, 09:57 AM)toseland Wrote: if its mint.. why not swap out EVERYTHING on the TD into it and reregister it with a colour change..
you can keep the original registration, go for a respray and replace the chassis plates..
the spec for the TD will not have changed, the power and running gear also.
I'm curious, in what way is that legal ?
From the point of view that you've changed the chassis plates to something else - which I understand happens a lot with classics and also racers/rally cars, where an original set of VIN plates and the chassis number chop can be worth a lot from a stuffed shell - but it smells of ringing so I'm not sure how you get around that ?
But from the point of view of insurance, it's still modified. The original car is no more, it's a new chassis, so still an engine swap, but also a chassis, interior, everything swap and thus still you must declare it.
Would you be 100% sure that the NAD and TD chassis were identical ?
Holes, captive nuts and even metal thickness or bracing can different between models - you'd have to be sure that it was 100% like for like to suggest there were no modification from factory spec - other than welds around the chassis number
Just very fishy territory unless you are declaring modified anyway.
RE: Kyboshed - toseland - 07-07-2014
you havent modified the chassis, or shell in any way.. its a like for like replacem,ent
gearbox, transmission to wheels, suspension and chassis all remain the same and the so will the specification, the only thing that will have changed is the engine.
meaning you havent changed enough things to warrant a reregistration (SVA, Qplate etc) and can keep the original registration mark.
what i meant was you can change the chassis number registered against the car with the DVLA (not swap the chassis plates over)
RE: Kyboshed - nominous - 07-07-2014
I'm not sure I'm following you.
You said:
Quote:if its mint.. why not swap out EVERYTHING on the TD into it and reregister it with a colour change..
you can keep the original registration, go for a respray and replace the chassis plates..
the spec for the TD will not have changed, the power and running gear also.
So that's keeping the TD running gear, switching the chassis over.
Which surely means swapping the VIN plates too.
Or you mean change the chassis number on the TD's V5 for the NAD chassis number ?
Either way, it's still a modified car.
RE: Kyboshed - toseland - 07-07-2014
you can tell the DVLA about a VIN change..
if you are replacing like for like (with a different vin number.. 306 body etc) then all it would require is that you contact the DVLA and provide proof..
if you have hte V5 certificates for both cars you may retain the registration from the DTurbo, and change the vin on this certificate from the old car to the new car, and update the colour of course
what in essence you will have is the Dturbo, with the (updated) NAD vin (which is now properly registered against the Dturbo) and of the correct colour..
i did, and will be doing this again, with my vitara (which differers slightly as its a chassis with its own chassis number and a rivetted plate number on the body relating to the chassis etc) so its a shade simpler.
ITs not modified.. its still in OEM condition, the only thing you ahve done is changed a number and the colour.. effectively, on what is a standard car..
its like saying that putting a different set of the same style of alloys makes it a modified car... or replacing the engine with the same unit (and updating the engine number on the V5)
it is still registered (originally) as a DTurbo.. (as the original V5), the engine number and specification remain unchanged
RE: Kyboshed - nominous - 08-07-2014
I cannot see how that doesn't fall foul on the technically when it comes to insurance of:
"has the car been modified in anyway".
Yes is the answer.
The VIN has been changed.
Can of worms then opens.
For certain in the Honda world, two chassis from the same model range but differing specs (engines or trim levels) will have many differences in construction.
For example if one engine is a carb and another a PGMFI, the firewall will have different holes for different pipes or levers.
Or one might have AC and the one not, so a another different hole in the firewall.
Or even that the metal will be thicker in some parts to accommodate the higher power level of the chassis with the bigger engine.
Or differences like having a ARB on one model and not the other thus needing to add rivnuts to add the ARB mounts.
And I assume engine mounts welded to the chassis are identical in every 306 chassis ? - not in a Honda.
Once you swap all of the bits over, you've got a modified chassis.
Whether you fill or cut a hole, add or remove anything that wasn't on the original chassis - it's modified from the original factory spec.
Insurance folks like technicalities to get off on. That's a big one.
I would say you still need to declare it, but you may find it's cheaper than just the engine swap.
Dunno, never tried it.
I've made one model look completely like another one except for the VIN.
I've never tried to change the VIN - TBH I never thought of that but it would have worked and I'd have declared it
RE: Kyboshed - Eeyore - 08-07-2014
I would say its pretty dodgey swapping the shells and VINs etc. Its also a lot of effort. Just buy the right car in the first place and save yourself the hassle.
RE: Kyboshed - Ruan - 08-07-2014
Cutting VIN plates off cars and welding them onto other cars is dodgy as f*ck and I'd be 99.999% sure - not allowed.
RE: Kyboshed - Niall - 08-07-2014
(08-07-2014, 08:46 PM)Ruan Wrote: Cutting VIN plates off cars and welding them onto other cars is dodgy as f*ck and I'd be 99.999% sure - not allowed.
This. If it was as easy to do this as just letting the DVLA know, cars would be being nicked and re vin'd every day legally. Don't think so some how!
RE: Kyboshed - madmadmax - 08-07-2014
no body is cutting anything off the chassis, it's all paper work
RE: Kyboshed - nominous - 11-07-2014
As madmaxmax says, it's just paperwork.
But still IMHO: "has the car been modified in anyway"
I know that people do this with classic cars, but then the rules are a little different on such matters because it's accepted practise.
It all comes down to who your insurer is I suppose. So are more accommodating than others.
But as those insurance folks that post on forums like to say (rightly so) if in any doubt, tell your insurance company and they will tell you if it makes a difference.
RE: Kyboshed - toseland - 11-07-2014
on this note i called the DVLA..
the only thing that changes on mine is the colour as the chassis (and hence chassis number/vin) remains with the chassis.. PROVIDED the body is from an equivalent vehicle.. i asked if it was a problem changing the body from another specification and she said that (and i quote) as long as you replace a vitara body with a vitara body, then all you need to do is update the colour if there is a change.
i asked about the peugeot and she said "provided the body does not have to be modified in any way shape or form, to get it to fit, then you are able to change the VIN number associated with the registration mark" basically a like for like swap (ie a peugeot 306 5door onto a peugeot 306 5door etc). i asked about insurance and she said that it would still be showing as a standard vehicle on the database but to check with the insurance company just to be sure.
i did seek to clarify modify,. and the response was "structural modifications that directly affect, or have the potential to affect the original layout, strength or purpose", in my mind this doesnt mean drilling a hole for your washer fluid bottle for your rear windscreen, but would say, include welding on 3 new engine mounts after cutting the old ones off.
upon speaking to an aquaintance, who works for a bodyshop, he said that this is common practice (changing the VIN) and that there is a wide scope for interchangeable body shells (he works with mk1/2 escorts) and has suggested that if appropriately done, and to a high enough standard, then the insurance company will treat it like a standard vehicle.
he did say he had issues if say, he was using a 1.6 body with a V8 engine as engine mounts and things were different and then they needed to update a few other things on the V5, but he has worked with S16 and GTI6 rally car spec cars in the past, and the body shell swaps were just that.. change the VIN and colour(if there is) and it was sorted.
he himself drives a reshelled Mk2 escort (it was originally a 1.3CVH iirc and now is a 1.8) iot was no issue as the engine mounts were near on identical on the car and only required a mount for the engine itself to be slightly modified, which doesnt constitute part of the bit that is being changed.
Why dont you ask the insurer mate.. explain the situation to them, speak to the DVLA, and see what they say.