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+--- Thread: Hdi or XUD... Pros and cons info needed. (/showthread.php?tid=25007)
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Hdi or XUD... Pros and cons info needed. - Matt-Rallye - 02-07-2014
Right guys, got a new job today starting monday which means a 60 mile commute everyday, while i have every faith that the rallye can do it, i want to do it as cheaply as possible sooooo...
Faced with thr same question what would you buy and why? Car has too be a derv 306.
Atm i am swaying towards a stage 1 hdi meridian due too the epic mpgs that zakks returns, but are they more expensive than an xud too fix?
RE: Hdi or XUD... Pros and cons info needed. - pugmanxud - 02-07-2014
Hdi for boring commute though I'm a out an out xud bore...
RE: Hdi or XUD... Pros and cons info needed. - Nathan1305 - 02-07-2014
(02-07-2014, 06:10 PM)Matt-Rallye Wrote: Right guys, got a new job today starting monday which means a 60 mile commute everyday, while i have every faith that the rallye can do it, i want to do it as cheaply as possible sooooo...
Faced with thr same question what would you buy and why? Car has too be a derv 306.
Atm i am swaying towards a stage 1 hdi meridian due too the epic mpgs that zakks returns, but are they more expensive than an xud too fix?
HDI
they seem awesome
RE: Hdi or XUD... Pros and cons info needed. - Curt - 02-07-2014
It's down to preference at the end of the day.
Cheap, simple, hit-it-with-a-hammer = XUD
More refined, better MPG, more complex = HDi
XUD has the added benefit of veg if Bosch'd though of course, which is a massive advantage for some. Personally, I wasn't a fan. It's good for when you're skint though.
RE: Hdi or XUD... Pros and cons info needed. - Dum-Dum - 02-07-2014
If you want as cheaply as possible get a 106NAD, neither 306 will touch it.
Also haven't we had this discussion like a million times here.
RE: Hdi or XUD... Pros and cons info needed. - bashbarnard - 02-07-2014
All about xud. But as said advantages to both really. Running on veg is an xud thing really cheap to run need a little knoledge to do it. Hdi has better mpgs but more electrics.
RE: Hdi or XUD... Pros and cons info needed. - Tom - 02-07-2014
Personally id prefer a hdi for commuting.
RE: Hdi or XUD... Pros and cons info needed. - Matt-Rallye - 02-07-2014
I am sure this question has been asked a million and one times but i havent been able too find any definitive answers that satisfy my questions.
I am completely clueless about diesels, had a couple of dturbos before but never had too do anything to them or rely on them like i will be relying on this.
Its a question of reliability, mpg and comfort but also factoring parts costs if it does go tits up.
RE: Hdi or XUD... Pros and cons info needed. - Dum-Dum - 02-07-2014
(02-07-2014, 06:36 PM)Matt-Rallye Wrote: Its a question of reliability, mpg and comfort but also factoring parts costs if it does go tits up.
And so were back at the 106 NAD. I've never heard of one go wrong (they die of rust first), do far better MPG than the 306 diesels cost even less to fix (£70 for a full new lock set when I f*cked the only key and easier to fit too) and if you swap 306 seats into it bloody comfortable.
RE: Hdi or XUD... Pros and cons info needed. - cully - 02-07-2014
for a long trip to work find a later hdi with working aircon
two reasons cheaper tax and chill out time on the way home
xud's return better mpg than my stg1 hdi but the workin aircon makes up for that
RE: Hdi or XUD... Pros and cons info needed. - Matt-Rallye - 02-07-2014
(02-07-2014, 06:41 PM)Dum-Dum Wrote:(02-07-2014, 06:36 PM)Matt-Rallye Wrote: Its a question of reliability, mpg and comfort but also factoring parts costs if it does go tits up.
And so were back at the 106 NAD. I've never heard of one go wrong (they die of rust first), do far better MPG than the 306 diesels cost even less to fix (£70 for a full new lock set when I f*cked the only key and easier to fit too) and if you swap 306 seats into it bloody comfortable.
I refuse too have a NAD 106. I clearly stated car must be 306
I had a 1.5d 106 for all of a week, hated every dull and dangerously slow minute of it.
(02-07-2014, 06:42 PM)cully Wrote: for a long trip to work find a later hdi with working aircon
two reasons cheaper tax and chill out time on the way home
xud's return better mpg than my stg1 hdi but the workin aircon makes up for that
Again the cheap tax is swaying me, never had a/c so doesnt fuss me really lol
RE: Hdi or XUD... Pros and cons info needed. - Dum-Dum - 02-07-2014
(02-07-2014, 06:42 PM)cully Wrote: xud's return better mpg than my stg1 hdi but the workin aircon makes up for that
XUDs dont return better MPG than your stage 1 HDi's. Driven the same the HDi will get a couple of MPG better. I know as I'm currently averaging the low 30s mpg in my XUD but a HDi driven the same would see the mid to high 30s mpg. Obviously driven sensibly my 2.1TD will see over 60mpg on the motorway but then a looked after HDi on a decent map will see nearer 70mpg.
Also HDi with working air con? You can swap that for some hens teeth and some rocking horse shit.
HDi is the better bet, there isnt that much to go wrong with them really and you get good stuff like bigger wheels, longer box, bigger brakes and nicer ph3 looks.
RE: Hdi or XUD... Pros and cons info needed. - Jimbo - 02-07-2014
Personally would go xud.
How many "hdi wont start" threads do you see? Loads
Can have some wicked electrical problems, and sometimes people replace loads of parts to no avail
Xud will run on a few wires and generally be reliable especially in standard form (boring mind)
Re: RE: Hdi or XUD... Pros and cons info needed. - bashbarnard - 02-07-2014
(02-07-2014, 07:00 PM)Dum-Dum Wrote:(02-07-2014, 06:42 PM)cully Wrote: xud's return better mpg than my stg1 hdi but the workin aircon makes up for that
XUDs dont return better MPG than your stage 1 HDi's. Driven the same the HDi will get a couple of MPG better. I know as I'm currently averaging the low 30s mpg in my XUD but a HDi driven the same would see the mid to high 30s mpg. Obviously driven sensibly my 2.1TD will see over 60mpg on the motorway but then a looked after HDi on a decent map will see nearer 70mpg.
Also HDi with working air con? You can swap that for some hens teeth and some rocking horse shit.
HDi is the better bet, there isnt that much to go wrong with them really and you get good stuff like bigger wheels, longer box, bigger brakes and nicer ph3 looks.
Low 30s from an xud!! How is this possible im stage 1 and average 55 my mrs has a standard one and averages 60!! How are you driving it!!
Do you have 5 gears? Or are you just using first and second
RE: Hdi or XUD... Pros and cons info needed. - Toms306 - 02-07-2014
Y plate HDi ftw tbh....but PP2k is a necessity
As for 106 NADs, I've had 2 broken ones lol, they're not that reliable in my experience...you'll also go through driveshafts every other week...
RE: Hdi or XUD... Pros and cons info needed. - Piggy - 02-07-2014
Bosch'd 306 xud turbo.
50p a litre, 130bhp for twisting a few screws, and 45-50mpg
Re: RE: Hdi or XUD... Pros and cons info needed. - bashbarnard - 02-07-2014
(02-07-2014, 07:23 PM)Piggy Wrote: Bosch'd 306 xud turbo.
50p a litre, 130bhp for twisting a few screws, and 45-50mpg
Exactly.
Problem is on here you find MOST people are very biased toward one or the other. Much like myself. Xud ftw! Although my cousins one I got off toms306 is fine and thats a hdi on 270000
RE: Hdi or XUD... Pros and cons info needed. - Toms306 - 02-07-2014
Blimey, its lost a few miles since I had it then.
Re: RE: Hdi or XUD... Pros and cons info needed. - bashbarnard - 02-07-2014
(02-07-2014, 07:40 PM)Toms306 Wrote: Blimey, its lost a few miles since I had it then.
Was a guesstimate couldnt rember exact
RE: Hdi or XUD... Pros and cons info needed. - C.A.R. - 02-07-2014
You have to remember that a forum is a tool for many people to use only when they have a problem, so the quantity of 'problem threads' is always going to be on a high ratio, as our forum is the source of many answers!
I always hated diesel and it was only when I started doing 45 miles a day and had to support my daughter growing up that I finally buckled. My first was a Focus TDCi - hated it. Then I bought my HDi in a bid to save money and now - more than 2 years on - I'm still reluctant to part with it, because even with all the bits I've had to replace it still costs less than £300 maintenance a year which is insane. It starts on the button, is relatively refined and incredibly economical when it's happy. 50mpg without trying is bliss, something I won't achieve in a newer/bigger car, and something I'll miss!
I've never owned an XUD but I have had one as a courtesy car. They're very old skool and you get that impression from them that they're able to take as much abuse as you throw at them, whereas a HDi seems a bit more delicate. A stage 1 or 1+ map totally transforms the car, the latter is what I currently run an it even makes the car easier to drive and the engine happier to rev.
I will likely be parting with mine soon, but everytime I look into the running costs of a newer car I just want to keep the trusty HDi!
RE: Hdi or XUD... Pros and cons info needed. - toseland - 02-07-2014
XUD = bomb proof,
HDI = bomb proof..
both = bomb proof..
as people ahve said,m the HDI is more electricaryally advanced, meaning potentially more expensive when it goes wrong.. the XUD is a simple hit with hammer to fix ugg... job, mine is great, replaced half hte engine and a new headgasket and belt kit for under £150.
Tuning the HDi needs a laptop.. will return more MPG, slightly more refined control too
Tuning the XUD needs a screwdriver or allen key, a 10mm spanner, a roll duct tape and a cup of tea, to acheive near on similar results..
i have 7 wires on my engine (XUD) one to the stop solonoid from the immobiliser 2 on the alternator, 3 on the starter and thje other is the earth to the back of the block
Hdi or XUD... Pros and cons info needed. - DavidA - 02-07-2014
I've not driven a 306 HDi, but I filled up my XUD this morning and the last tank got me 618 miles = 50.5mpg brim to brim. I'm doing 55ish miles each way on mostly single lane A roads.
Had a Corsa C CDTi before, and while it would do 63mpg I much prefer how the 6 handles.
RE: Hdi or XUD... Pros and cons info needed. - Ruan - 03-07-2014
Meh.
Driven both... HDis are slightly more dull than XUDs, more refined, do go wrong - but generally easy fixes.
If you want an XUD to return good economy, stick a GT15 or modern turbocharger on it, my XUD + GT20v would happily return 58-60mpg all day long. HDis will return good economy, but seen a few that that don't, seen some that will barely return 45mpg ish, mapped or unmapped... Don't know why.
If XUDs were treated in the same way HDis are treated in terms of being given new parts, serviced on time with decent oil, which no one ever seems to do - literally every time something goes wrong with an XUD, I see people down the scrap yard for second hand this and that - they'd be just as reliable and frankly, refined. It's just when you shove 60 litres of veg in the tank, have NEVER replaced the glowplugs or set the injection timing correctly, got a horrible cone filter for epic induction drone, scaffold pole exhaust and then expect it to have a beautiful smooth, quiet idle on a 5*c morning - it's not going to happen.
Horses for courses, one isn't better than the other I don't think, it's about what you want. You need to know what you're letting yourself in for with an XUD - remember the YOUNGEST XUD you can get now is 1998 or so, that makes it 16 years old still, HDis are only ever younger and they are the later Ph3 cars, they have all the bits you want to put on the Ph1/2 DT...
RE: Hdi or XUD... Pros and cons info needed. - Matt-Rallye - 03-07-2014
(03-07-2014, 02:10 PM)Ruan Wrote: Meh.
Driven both... HDis are slightly more dull than XUDs, more refined, do go wrong - but generally easy fixes.
If you want an XUD to return good economy, stick a GT15 or modern turbocharger on it, my XUD + GT20v would happily return 58-60mpg all day long. HDis will return good economy, but seen a few that that don't, seen some that will barely return 45mpg ish, mapped or unmapped... Don't know why.
If XUDs were treated in the same way HDis are treated in terms of being given new parts, serviced on time with decent oil, which no one ever seems to do - literally every time something goes wrong with an XUD, I see people down the scrap yard for second hand this and that - they'd be just as reliable and frankly, refined. It's just when you shove 60 litres of veg in the tank, have NEVER replaced the glowplugs or set the injection timing correctly, got a horrible cone filter for epic induction drone, scaffold pole exhaust and then expect it to have a beautiful smooth, quiet idle on a 5*c morning - it's not going to happen.
Horses for courses, one isn't better than the other I don't think, it's about what you want. You need to know what you're letting yourself in for with an XUD - remember the YOUNGEST XUD you can get now is 1998 or so, that makes it 16 years old still, HDis are only ever younger and they are the later Ph3 cars, they have all the bits you want to put on the Ph1/2 DT...
Thats just what i wanted too hear!
Think im swaying more towards an XUD but with a modern turbo, bosch pump and a HDi gearbox simply for the smoothness and reliablity.
Re: RE: Hdi or XUD... Pros and cons info needed. - bashbarnard - 03-07-2014
(03-07-2014, 02:20 PM)Matt-Rallye Wrote:(03-07-2014, 02:10 PM)Ruan Wrote: Meh.
Driven both... HDis are slightly more dull than XUDs, more refined, do go wrong - but generally easy fixes.
If you want an XUD to return good economy, stick a GT15 or modern turbocharger on it, my XUD + GT20v would happily return 58-60mpg all day long. HDis will return good economy, but seen a few that that don't, seen some that will barely return 45mpg ish, mapped or unmapped... Don't know why.
If XUDs were treated in the same way HDis are treated in terms of being given new parts, serviced on time with decent oil, which no one ever seems to do - literally every time something goes wrong with an XUD, I see people down the scrap yard for second hand this and that - they'd be just as reliable and frankly, refined. It's just when you shove 60 litres of veg in the tank, have NEVER replaced the glowplugs or set the injection timing correctly, got a horrible cone filter for epic induction drone, scaffold pole exhaust and then expect it to have a beautiful smooth, quiet idle on a 5*c morning - it's not going to happen.
Horses for courses, one isn't better than the other I don't think, it's about what you want. You need to know what you're letting yourself in for with an XUD - remember the YOUNGEST XUD you can get now is 1998 or so, that makes it 16 years old still, HDis are only ever younger and they are the later Ph3 cars, they have all the bits you want to put on the Ph1/2 DT...
Thats just what i wanted too hear!
Think im swaying more towards an XUD but with a modern turbo, bosch pump and a HDi gearbox simply for the smoothness and reliablity.
Boom my setup. Apart from my gt15 which is being replaced soon
RE: Hdi or XUD... Pros and cons info needed. - mr_fish - 03-07-2014
^^
Something like this really needs to be put in the guides section.
With Ruan 100% on this one...I'm all for the XUD in terms of simple motoring and not a lot to go wrong but as said, people just need to maintain them and there would be next to no hassle given. Before my engine even did a mile on the road I had Darren overhaul the pump and injectors also equipped with a cambelt, tensioners and water pump, oil drain and a set of new seals here and there (bar the headgasket) the engine hasn't given me any trouble. Well apart from a dodgy start stop solenoid.
Its when you start pushing the power limits they have the potential to be troublesome, big turbos, increased torque levels etc etc.
So keep them maintained, have some mechanical sympathy and the XUD will continue to run fine.
RE: Hdi or XUD... Pros and cons info needed. - Ruan - 03-07-2014
I'll definitely say "Mechanical Sympathy" is a lost art.....
XUD - you can totally f*ck with the calibration of the engine with a 13mm, 10mm and a flat head screwdriver and from the amount of XUDs you see hammering coal out the back door, people really do f*ck with the calibration!
HDi - you've got to understand checksums, find the maps, understand re-scaling axes, offsets and factors before you can understand what you're doing.
This means that an XUD has to put up with whatever Bob and his 13mm can do to it... I personally think it's bloody incredible what they will put up with...
HDi if it thinks something is wrong, it'll just shut off or turn down the power output, it has maps which make it inject less/more fuel when the fuel is too hot to protect the CR pump, it can stop so much fuel if the coolant is getting too hot... You've got so many more levels of safety, hence they "seem" more reliable because you can't circumvent that as easily - trust me, if you could, all of that would be disabled and they'd be just as unreliable!
RE: Hdi or XUD... Pros and cons info needed. - Matt-Rallye - 03-07-2014
Mechanical sympathy is something i believe in, like my rallye always gets warmed up before being driven and never driven hard untill the oil is upto operating temp.
I do quite like the safety nets of the hdi though...
RE: Hdi or XUD... Pros and cons info needed. - cully - 03-07-2014
(02-07-2014, 09:56 PM)DavidA Wrote: I filled up my XUD this morning and the last tank got me 618 miles = 50.5mpg brim to brim.
filled my HDI up today too last tank 512 miles on 55ltrs = 42.3mpg point proven!
RE: Hdi or XUD... Pros and cons info needed. - Toms306 - 03-07-2014
Cully you really must have a lead foot. I've not had a HDi ever get that bad! Even an estate fully loaded doing short runs moving house averaged about 47mpg! Which I thought was awful lol. Normal driving (with a heavy foot) I never get below 50mpg...