+- 306oc - Peugeot 306 Owners Club & Forum (https://www.306oc.co.uk/forum)
+-- Forum: 306 Repairs & Mods (https://www.306oc.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=22)
+--- Forum: Suspension, Transmission, Handling & Braking (https://www.306oc.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=19)
+--- Thread: Polybushed rear beam mounts (/showthread.php?tid=24852)
Pages:
1
2
Polybushed rear beam mounts - Piggy - 26-06-2014
So after a number of emails with powerflex, there are some rear beam mounts on the way to them.
They intend to see if they can make some polybushed mounts.
Following on from the success of the updated design of the front lower wishbone bushes, I am hoping for something good!
I have suggested to keep costs down, there could be an exchange basis.
Plus, as advantage to them, these obviously can be used on the ZX/xsara. Iif these go well, a similar design can be used for the 106/205/saxo etc.
Watch this space
RE: Polybushed rear beam mounts - titch - 26-06-2014
Sorry but I wouldn't trust anything powershite make to hold some thing important like the rear beam to the car.
RE: Polybushed rear beam mounts - Piggy - 26-06-2014
Thats fine.
I have never had an issue with them falling apart...and they are good to try and correct any issues I have known
But each has their own experience.
RE: Polybushed rear beam mounts - LewisG - 26-06-2014
Im fitting my powerflex bushes sunday! Along with lemforder ball joints and partner p bushes
RE: Polybushed rear beam mounts - zx_volcane - 26-06-2014
So somewhere between standard mounts and solid? Failing to see the point to be honest. They already do inserts to stiffen up the rear rear mounts right?
RE: Polybushed rear beam mounts - Jonny81191 - 26-06-2014
How can you fail to see the point? It's the same principle of stiffening any bush! That's like saying there's no point in powerflex p-bushes, as you may as well fit rose joints..
RE: Polybushed rear beam mounts - Niall - 26-06-2014
(26-06-2014, 07:29 PM)Jonny81191 Wrote: How can you fail to see the point? It's the same principle of stiffening any bush! That's like saying there's no point in powerflex p-bushes, as you may as well fit rose joints..
This. Standard P bushes are too soft for a proper hoon yet rose joints are far to solid for road use (well british roads anyway!). Its nice to have a middle ground!
RE: Polybushed rear beam mounts - titch - 26-06-2014
But the original post is talking about rear beam mounts not P bushes.
RE: Polybushed rear beam mounts - Niall - 26-06-2014
(26-06-2014, 07:40 PM)titch Wrote: But the originalpost is talking about rear beam mounts not P bushes.
Im aware of that but the same rule applies. It is nice to have a middle ground.
RE: Polybushed rear beam mounts - Jonny81191 - 26-06-2014
(26-06-2014, 07:41 PM)Niall Wrote:(26-06-2014, 07:40 PM)titch Wrote: But the originalpost is talking about rear beam mounts not P bushes.
Im aware of that but the same rule applies. It is nice to have a middle ground.
Exactly this. The correct term I believe is "fast road"
RE: Polybushed rear beam mounts - titch - 26-06-2014
maybe, but you could have the middle ground or(fast road) with standard pug mounts and their inserts, like ZX said
RE: Polybushed rear beam mounts - Jonny81191 - 26-06-2014
(26-06-2014, 07:47 PM)titch Wrote: maybe, but you could have the middle ground with standard pug mounts and their inserts, like ZX said.
Bear in mind that the inserts aren't particularly great..
RE: Polybushed rear beam mounts - Niall - 26-06-2014
And the inserts are designed to remove passive rear steer completely where as if they redesigned the standard rear mounts, you would still have passive rear steer albeit reduced.
RE: Polybushed rear beam mounts - titch - 26-06-2014
(26-06-2014, 07:49 PM)Jonny81191 Wrote:(26-06-2014, 07:47 PM)titch Wrote: maybe, but you could have the middle ground with standard pug mounts and their inserts, like ZX said.
Bear in mind that the inserts aren't particularly great..
Pretty much like all their stuff to be honest !
RE: Polybushed rear beam mounts - Jonny81191 - 26-06-2014
(26-06-2014, 07:53 PM)titch Wrote:(26-06-2014, 07:49 PM)Jonny81191 Wrote:(26-06-2014, 07:47 PM)titch Wrote: maybe, but you could have the middle ground with standard pug mounts and their inserts, like ZX said.
Bear in mind that the inserts aren't particularly great..
Pretty much like all their stuff to be honest !
And the reason it wasn't improving (correct me if I'm wrong) was because nobody had done what Piggy is doing, and working with them to improve the product..
RE: Polybushed rear beam mounts - titch - 26-06-2014
(26-06-2014, 07:52 PM)Niall Wrote: And the inserts are designed to remove passive rear steer completely where as if they redesigned the standard rear mounts, you would still have passive rear steer albeit reduced.
I agree but surley pug spent ages designing the rear mounts to give the passive rear steer and the correct ammount with lots of testing involved , so if powerflex stiffen them and testing is something they seem to do very little of who knows what they will be like.
RE: Polybushed rear beam mounts - zx_volcane - 26-06-2014
(26-06-2014, 07:29 PM)Jonny81191 Wrote: How can you fail to see the point? It's the same principle of stiffening any bush! That's like saying there's no point in powerflex p-bushes, as you may as well fit rose joints..
I don't think so in this case as they're not bushes in the traditional sense, either you want passive rear steering or you don't, not as if people are replacing their beam mounts regularly because they wear - middle ground? Not sure I see the point, either go with new oem mounts or go solid, but thats just my opinion. And theres already the option of inserts if you want.
RE: Polybushed rear beam mounts - Niall - 26-06-2014
(26-06-2014, 07:57 PM)titch Wrote:(26-06-2014, 07:52 PM)Niall Wrote: And the inserts are designed to remove passive rear steer completely where as if they redesigned the standard rear mounts, you would still have passive rear steer albeit reduced.
I agree but surley pug spent ages designing the rear mounts to give the passive rear steer and the correct ammount with lots of testing involved , so if powerflex stiffen them and testing is something they seem to do very little of who knows what they will be like.
You could say exactly the same about any aftermarket product. Do you think companies like Bilstein pump as much money into their R&D for a shock for a 306 as Peugeot would? No because they don't have that kind of money especially to do it for every model they make shocks for. They would never make a profit!
RE: Polybushed rear beam mounts - titch - 26-06-2014
(26-06-2014, 07:55 PM)Jonny81191 Wrote:(26-06-2014, 07:53 PM)titch Wrote:(26-06-2014, 07:49 PM)Jonny81191 Wrote: Bear in mind that the inserts aren't particularly great..
Pretty much like all their stuff to be honest !
And the reason it wasn't improving (correct me if I'm wrong) was because nobody had done what Piggy is doing, and working with them to improve the product..
Agree with that to a certian degree good on piggy, BUT if Powerflex tested their products correctly and thoroughly then they would fit well and perform first time.
I have ordered lots in the past 2 full sets for my other cars, and there was something wrong with every bush, Powerflex sorted it quickly but still its a bit slack that they werent right first time. Ironically the only bush i didn't have a problem with was their original design 306 wishbone bush.
Their lower engine mount was the last straw for me, i spent ages on the phone and emailing them and after about 4 attempts their new and improved one still wasn't great, so i am going to be a little against them, i have just lost faith in their products.
(26-06-2014, 08:00 PM)Niall Wrote:(26-06-2014, 07:57 PM)titch Wrote:(26-06-2014, 07:52 PM)Niall Wrote: And the inserts are designed to remove passive rear steer completely where as if they redesigned the standard rear mounts, you would still have passive rear steer albeit reduced.
I agree but surley pug spent ages designing the rear mounts to give the passive rear steer and the correct ammount with lots of testing involved , so if powerflex stiffen them and testing is something they seem to do very little of who knows what they will be like.
You could say exactly the same about any aftermarket product. Do you think companies like Bilstein pump as much money into their R&D for a shock for a 306 as Peugeot would? No because they don't have that kind of money especially to do it for every model they make shocks for. They would never make a profit!
You could about some, but i bet bilstein actually test all their items before selling them. Powerflex just seem to copy an original oem part and the release it for sale without thorough testing. They will have no idea how much it will effect the passive rear steer by stiffening them up.
RE: Polybushed rear beam mounts - Piggy - 26-06-2014
Yeah but I will.
OEM ones have lasted for me...but are too soft really and I can see 21mm bars destroying them.
The inserts are pretty crap, an after thought imo. Plus they dont do anything for the larger mounts
Imo, solid mounts are too much, too harsh and I like the passive rear stear, its a feature of the 306.
But we all have our preferences, for me, and quite a few others, I can see having a polybushed option will be very useful...much like the same option for the front wishbones .
Price dependant of course
For those who arent just bitching about powerflex...
What price do we think is reasonable?
For a non exhchange and exchange basis?
RE: Polybushed rear beam mounts - titch - 26-06-2014
I totally agree with what you said and it is personal preferance, i fitted solid mounts on mine when the original ones started to knock and i wouldn't go back now but that is my opinion, i guess that was aimed at me, i am not just bitching about Powerflex everything i have said has been valid point .
Did they give you any indication on price as i can't imagine they would be cheap.
But like you said i guess the price is going to be another deciding factor for people, how much is a set of solid mounts nowadays as people will compare the cost to those maybe as they are a sort of upgrade/modified mount.
RE: Polybushed rear beam mounts - zx_volcane - 26-06-2014
You've lost me here, what problem are you trying solve with these mounts?
How will 21mm torsion beams affect the mounts that hold the beam to the car? How are your mounts too soft? Unless you're absolutely caning it round bends I don't see how you feel the edge where the passive rear comes into real effect, or effecting lift off oversteer.
dampers, yes, possibly go for something slightly stiffer to go with the stiffer torsion bars.
but are we not talking the equivalent of top mounts on the front suspension? Its not the same as poly bushing the front bushes on the wishbones.
Not having a dig, but seems its just for the sake of rather than solving an issue, and given how long the 306 has been around i'd have assumed if there was a need for such a product it'd be about by now.
RE: Polybushed rear beam mounts - Piggy - 26-06-2014
There is a product...solid mounts! But just like solid front top mounts, their fricking harsh for daily road use.
As to comparing them...I think I would struggle to flex a new front top mount...but a new OEM rear mount will flex in your hands
21mm bars are quite a bit harsher than 19s which I was on...more of a change than I realised to the whole car...hence at last getting me ass into gear and exploring this option.
If you dont like the idea, thats fine.
RE: Polybushed rear beam mounts - zx_volcane - 26-06-2014
yeah solid mount to remove passive rear steering to change the handling characteristics in a very specific way, not to cope with upgrade torsion bars or lowering or fast road or whatever
i had no issue with solid top front mounts on my coilovers, in fact the rest of the suspension took care of it right? just attaches it to the car. same as rear mounts, only reason they are flexible is for passive rear steer, side to side movement, so will be the only thing you affect.
you generally go poly bushed on bushes that wear and give you movement in an undesirable direction.
Trying to work through the logic, all you're going to end up with is slightly less passive rear steering by an undefined amount which you haven't defined as being a problem for you
i'll leave it at that, as bannatyne would say 'i'm oot'
RE: Polybushed rear beam mounts - Piggy - 26-06-2014
Which those OEM mounts do wear, or just break...not as bad as the P bushes I admit but not that far off....but retaining passive rear stear but with a slight reduction and not going fully solid AND having lifetime guarantee...
Sounds like a great compromise to me
RE: Polybushed rear beam mounts - zx_volcane - 26-06-2014
never seen an oem one break to be fair
RE: Polybushed rear beam mounts - Piggy - 26-06-2014
Haha
Ironically I am replacing two of those for a customer tomorrow whose rear mounts have done exactly that
RE: Polybushed rear beam mounts - powerandtorque - 27-06-2014
(26-06-2014, 09:09 PM)Piggy Wrote: There is a product...solid mounts! But just like solid front top mounts, their fricking harsh for daily road use.
Out of curiousity Piggy, have you actually tried solid beam mounts?
I've had them on my 306 daily hack for 100k miles now and in my opinion there is no significant increase in NVH from them. The replacement estate is still on the original bushes until I get around to moving the uprated parts over, so I've a reasonable back to back comparison from that point of view.
Not at all like uprated front top mounts which - going by 205 Group N ones at any rate - do quite noticeably increase NVH, to the point I ended up removing them and going back to new standard mounts given that my 205 is almost exclusively used on the road.
RE: Polybushed rear beam mounts - titch - 27-06-2014
I didn't notice any significant increase in noise when i fitted my solid mounts either, if there is something wrongthough then they do amplify the noise loads, as i had a dodgy tyre and it sounded terrible with the solid mounts on.
RE: Polybushed rear beam mounts - Piggy - 27-06-2014
We all have different levels of tolerances for NVH...or whatever.
But whatever...if you dont want any or arent interested, then maybe just dont fill up this thread with arguments?!
If they can make some, I'll be trying them for sure!
[attachment=17194]