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+--- Thread: Private Car Parks Charges (/showthread.php?tid=2213)
Private Car Parks Charges - cwspellowe - 14-03-2012
ARGH!
My dad in law's received a letter stating he has to pay £120 as the registered keeper of his Fiesta as the driver overstayed the allotted hour's stay in the tesco car park. I got him to appeal the charge as they're basically hounding him personally for the money even though it's a civil contract between the driver and the land owner. There's a few of us insured on the motor and he doesn't remember being there at that time, so can't admit to being the driver, and their response has basically cited a county court case that bears no relevance to the case against the driver in an attempt to scare him into paying. I'd just typed this (quoted below) up for him in response to their underhand bullying and you know what he's said?
"I'm just going to pay it, I don't want to go to court, i'm too old for this".
I've tried to reassure him i'll represent him along with my lawyer should it ever go to County Court but he's terrified of what might happen should it go to court. If it was me i'd be taking Parking Eye to court myself for the way they're making him feel through no fault of his own but it's not me and i'm helpless without his consent.
FML, watching him throw £120 down the pan. He's 63 ffs, who the f*ck are these people to do that to a near enough pensioner?
Quote:Dear Sir/Madam,
Thank you for you correspondence relating to my appeal of parking charge 590007547386.
I have researched the County Court case of CPS vs. Thomas, and Judge Ackroyd's ruling. I have noted that the Judge ruled "on the balance of probability". I am also aware of the evidence that was provided by the prosecutor and how it originated from an admittance of guilt on an online, publicly viewable consumer advice forum, to be later edited to remove the original admittance, hence leading to the ruling of probability in the prosecutor's favour. At no point have I denied that the driver was me, however I have stated several times that I am unaware who the driver was at that date and time. Your response to the appeal states that I denied I was the driver, as such your rejection of the appeal is unsubstantiated as you have not considered the appeal with the information provided in mind. If I were found to be the driver after having originally denied breaching the contract then yes, a Judge would rule against me, but without evidence as to the identity of the driver I can not be held accountable.
The citation of the CPS vs. Thomas case in your letter appears to have been used vaguely and I am not sure why you would include it in your response, but if you are suggesting this may be the case should I be summoned to County Court over the matter I am prepared to contest this fully. Having spoken to my lawyer, he has advised me that you should provide me with further evidence as to the identity of the driver of the vehicle or refrain from contacting me again. I am under no obligation to find out who the driver was for you as this is a Civil matter and not a Road Traffic Offence. Section 143 (1) of the Road Traffic Act 1988 ascertains that the keeper of the vehicle should know at all times the identity of the driver of the vehicle to ensure the vehicle is insured for use on the road. As this matter does not question the validity of insurance or use of the vehicle on the road, given that the charge relates to use of the vehicle on private land, my inability to identify the driver does not, in my opinion, count as an obstruction of justice. It is therefore up to you as the accusor to prove who the driver of the vehicle was at the time of the breach of contract.
A County Court ruling is also not representative of Case Law and there is no indication a judge would cite the case in a County Court. A judge will most likely rule in favour of the defendant in cases with a lack of evidence, I would like to see the evidence you would bring to court so I can examine it fully.
Unless your response is to provide me with further evidence to support you pursuing me for the charge you will not hear from me further, instead from my legal representative. Further hints of accusation "on the balance of probability" and threats of fines when you can not identify the driver will have the case viewed as harassment on my part and this will not be tolerated.
Regards,
Mr P Gardner
Private Car Parks Charges - Jonny b - 14-03-2012
If its private land just ignore it!! It's just a request to pay, f*ck em unless it's a council then you don't have to pay, I had one from a company reresenting pizza hut after I went in comets they are both on the same trading estate and I parked in the trading estate, have to be carefully with these f*ckers as they just send a letter trying there luck
Re: Private Car Parks Charges - cwspellowe - 14-03-2012
If it was me who got the notice i'd be filing it under CS.
Chicken Shit.
Unfortunately they've got Peter hook line and sinker and he's too scared to NOT pay.
Private Car Parks Charges - Jonny b - 14-03-2012
Well then I don't know what to say bud!! You cant control him unfortunatly seems they can, He is under no legal obligation to pay!!!! Unless it's a police fine or a council then they can jog on
Re: Private Car Parks Charges - cwspellowe - 14-03-2012
Exactly what i've been trying to explain to him. Underhand tactics to bully him into paying. Their response to the appeal was that he'd denied being the driver, he never did, he said he didn't know who it was at that time on that day. And it's not a Road Traffic Offence when on private land so section 143 (1) does not apply, he does not have to incriminate anyone and it's up to the company to prove it was him should they take it to court. Their useless wording of their appeal rejection and inability to read his appeal in full makes me wonder what "legal team" they actually have?
No doubt Mr Perkins in his lonely office preying on the unaware again. Don't know him? Google him.
Private Car Parks Charges - Jonny b - 14-03-2012
Point is they don't have no legal terms !! Just bully tactics in the hope people will pay and I bet 70% do
Re: Private Car Parks Charges - cwspellowe - 14-03-2012
Yep, easy money for them. They've adapted their approach over the years to no longer misrepresent the charges as that was a favourite way to get the case thrown out in court, but they still have to prove the identity of the driver and the pictures they sent just show number plates.
Chancers, and i'm kick-someone-in-the-head-with-my-fist angry they've caught Peter out. The man earns minimum hourly wage working 6 days a week and he's about to throw them a few days' wages just because they asked for it. Rip off bastards.
Re: Private Car Parks Charges - Hitchos - 14-03-2012
thats crap mate i know he is worried but just tell them to take him to court they courts will see in you father-in-laws favour im sure
Re: Private Car Parks Charges - THE_Liam - 14-03-2012
I get these all the time after parking in the trading estate next to my work if I get there late and can't get a space, I just ignore 'em...
Re: Private Car Parks Charges - cwspellowe - 14-03-2012
Been trying to tell him all day, I can't physically stop him from phoning them and paying though. Keep trying to hide the letter and he keeps asking for it back
Re: Private Car Parks Charges - Hitchos - 14-03-2012
cwspellowe Wrote:Been trying to tell him all day, I can't physically stop him from phoning them and paying though. Keep trying to hide the letter and he keeps asking for it back
cant you accidently on purpose rip it up and put it in the bin
Re: Private Car Parks Charges - Toby - 14-03-2012
There is a time and a place for the enforcement of parking whilst on private land.
A Tesco's car park is not one of them.
Re: Private Car Parks Charges - Dum-Dum - 15-03-2012
Just igonre all the letters.
Personally id Return to sender marking up that this person no longer resides at this address
Re: Private Car Parks Charges - Connor - 15-03-2012
Yes you can physically stop him, steal his wallet!
Re: Private Car Parks Charges - Niall - 15-03-2012
As has been said, don't pay it. I get them at work all the time.
Unlike a council parking fine, it's not a fine. It's technically a invitation to pay an invoice. They will threaten with all sorts of legal action but they know none of it will ever stand up in court. They just prey on people who get scared by it.
We actually had a email from our fleet manager saying if you can park in a place like this (mostly mc donnalds car parks for me), do it instead of paying for street parking. Saves the company money! He just files them away and that's it.
Re: Private Car Parks Charges - Toby - 15-03-2012
I was discussing this with a friend earlier who works for Tesco, and he reckons their 4 hour limit stay is enforced by the council..
Now, he may of course be wrong. Or it may be that some seemingly private car parks are in fact council owned land.
I wonder what the key signs would be. I would imagine councils have their own distinctive signage?
Re: Private Car Parks Charges - C.A.R. - 16-03-2012
Send the parking company another letter outlining the law clearly to them.
Finish the letter stating that any further correspondence will be reported to the local Police as harrassment.
Soon shuts them up. Has now worked with tickets received from Asda, some local parking company whose offices were in Scotland and Tesco too.
They can levy a fine against you, but they cannot enforce one.