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Grounded LDA - 'down' on power?? - Printable Version

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Grounded LDA - 'down' on power?? - ginge191 - 12-03-2012

I may be answering my own question here so bare with...

I recently fitted a custom LDA pin from Dan! and went out for a drive, i felt the boost power had slightly increased and that was about it.

I then went out driving with a few friends - one whom has a 106gti, we tend to do a few 'laps' along a "private'ly owned straight and unrestricted road" to gauge and test performance - and no, not to chav up and gloat about how small our penis's are.

ANYWAWY..

We had another session last night to see what was happening and previously i could quite happily, keep up and margainly pull away - last night, we were keeping fairly level and he begain to pull away.

I wasnt a happy bunny, to which he mentioned that i was smoking a lot more than last time and over fueling if anything..

So how i can resolve this? my turbo is running the same PSI before and after LDA improvment (18PSI), but is purely smoking a lot more and down on power.

Am i getting TOO much fuel , and is there a way to adjust the turbo any more without touching the actuator/wastegate?

Will the fuel compensator raise the turbo any more?

Re: Grounded LDA - 'down' on power?? - Jenkosowls - 12-03-2012

What turbo are you on? Have you adjusted the lda spring cup the star wheel?

Re: Grounded LDA - 'down' on power?? - ginge191 - 12-03-2012

Jenkosowls Wrote:What turbo are you on? Have you adjusted the lda spring cup the star wheel?

running a KKK and it was adjusted before i had the LDA pin sorted - when i first installed a bosch.

Re: Grounded LDA - 'down' on power?? - Dan! - 12-03-2012

I meant to text you back about this the other day, but was busy alot over the weekend!

You will probably need to fiddle with some of the LDA settings to get the most out of a ground pin - all covered in my LDA guide Smile

Also, you deffo put the pin back in with the ground side facing the drivers side wheel, yeah? Smile

Re: Grounded LDA - 'down' on power?? - mark_airey - 12-03-2012

Yeah if its smoking on blow then you need more boost to burn it mate, your choices for doing this are either waste gate adjustment or a MBC Smile

Also if you turn the star wheel under the LDA spring anti-clockwise a few turns it will stiffen the spring meaning that you won't get on boost fueling until a slightly higher boost level which may help Smile

Re: Grounded LDA - 'down' on power?? - darrenjlobb - 12-03-2012

Your just overfueling / bogging it like fook now with the extra lda travel...

Either turn max fuel down to get back to clean on boost (same power as before), and it should also be alot cleaner off boost with new pin,

OR

Turn the boost up to 25psi and burn it off and make more power in general, but keep the smoke off boost..

Re: Grounded LDA - 'down' on power?? - ginge191 - 12-03-2012

Dan! Wrote:I meant to text you back about this the other day, but was busy alot over the weekend!

You will probably need to fiddle with some of the LDA settings to get the most out of a ground pin - all covered in my LDA guide Smile

Also, you deffo put the pin back in with the ground side facing the drivers side wheel, yeah? Smile

No worries, i'll have a fiddle - im bringing the top-screw OUT , correct?

and yep, definately did - i'll remove it again to double check, but fairly positive i did Smile

darrenjlobb Wrote:Turn the boost up to 25psi and burn it off and make more power in general, but keep the smoke off boost..

Turn up the boost by adjusting the turbo itself...
rumours go round about KKK's being "dangerous" over 20 PSI :| ... should i believe the sceptics??

Re: Grounded LDA - 'down' on power?? - mark_airey - 12-03-2012

^^ clearly the latter is the better option Darren Tongue

Re: Grounded LDA - 'down' on power?? - Dan! - 12-03-2012

Goodo mate. Also, did you remove the white plastic washer while you were in there? If Kris put the pump on and set it up I expect he might have already removed it, but it could still be there....

And with the starwheel (which the large spring seats on) I found the best way to set that up was wind it UP/ANTI CLOCKWISE like 4/5 turns, go for a drive and see how it feels (probably quite flat on boost), then wind it back in/clockwise half a turn go for a drive, maybe in another half a turn until you are happy there is not much smoke off boost but enough on boost to make decent power! Smile

Re: Grounded LDA - 'down' on power?? - darrenjlobb - 12-03-2012

ginge191 Wrote:
Dan! Wrote:I meant to text you back about this the other day, but was busy alot over the weekend!

You will probably need to fiddle with some of the LDA settings to get the most out of a ground pin - all covered in my LDA guide Smile

Also, you deffo put the pin back in with the ground side facing the drivers side wheel, yeah? Smile

No worries, i'll have a fiddle - im bringing the top-screw OUT , correct?

and yep, definately did - i'll remove it again to double check, but fairly positive i did Smile

darrenjlobb Wrote:Turn the boost up to 25psi and burn it off and make more power in general, but keep the smoke off boost..

Turn up the boost by adjusting the turbo itself...
rumours go round about KKK's being "dangerous" over 20 PSI :| ... should i believe the sceptics??


Back the screw on top the LDA housing out as far as it will go, if its in at all, its pointless having a grinded lda as you want max travel from them really to keep smoke levels down...

As for boost, I used to run k14's at 32psi all day long, yes it will reduce the life of them, but at 25psi, itl last forever...or if it pops, it would have shortly after anyway....tbh most people tend to run stock turbos flat out on here...

Re: Grounded LDA - 'down' on power?? - Midnightclub - 12-03-2012

ginge191 Wrote:Turn up the boost by adjusting the turbo itself...
rumours go round about KKK's being "dangerous" over 20 PSI :| ... should i believe the sceptics??

My friends had his DT running on a KKK K14 at over 24psi for well over a year now with no problems and IIRC a fair few people have had over 30psi on them with not too much trouble (i wouldn't recommend 30 psi though as it would probably kill the turbo a lot quicker)

Re: Grounded LDA - 'down' on power?? - Dan! - 12-03-2012

General rule I would go by

GT15 and KKK K03's, stick below 20 psi for safety/reliability, but will push 24/25 living dangerously.

T2 and KKK K14 (your turbo) stick below 25psi for safety/reliability, but will still last a while at 30+ if you drive with mechanical sympathy!

Re: Grounded LDA - 'down' on power?? - ginge191 - 12-03-2012

Sweet - Dan and Darren - cheers - and yeh, i just read through the LDA guide again, no the washer hasn't been removed, i'll whip that out and attempt to adjust the turbo when i get some time, i'll just fiddle with the fuel/lda settings until it's running clean(er) then get cracking with the turbo, OR look into rebuilding a smaller A/R KKK to deal with the higher pressure's in the future... OR just start saving for the next project ninja

need to get this low end torque UP!

Re: Grounded LDA - 'down' on power?? - silverzx - 12-03-2012

ginge191 Wrote:Sweet - Dan and Darren - cheers - and yeh, i just read through the LDA guide again, no the washer hasn't been removed, i'll whip that out and attempt to adjust the turbo when i get some time, i'll just fiddle with the fuel/lda settings until it's running clean(er) then get cracking with the turbo, OR look into rebuilding a smaller A/R KKK to deal with the higher pressure's in the future... OR just start saving for the next project ninja

need to get this low end torque UP!

If you genuinely don't care about top end get a GT15.

Personally I think that their quite underrated (with low end torque in mind).

My GT15'd DTurbo I had off DumDum felt a lot quicker then my T2, the spool is pretty damn fast. But obviously past 4,500 your going to be straining it.

Re: Grounded LDA - 'down' on power?? - ginge191 - 12-03-2012

silverzx Wrote:If you genuinely don't care about top end get a GT15.

Personally I think that their quite underrated (with low end torque in mind).

My GT15'd DTurbo I had off DumDum felt a lot quicker then my T2, the spool is pretty damn fast. But obviously past 4,500 your going to be straining it.

i was looking at this but the GT15 has an A/R of about 0.34 iirc... whereas K14 is 0.26, again, top of head numbers - low end on paper, the KKK is quicker BUT that's just paper...

Re: Grounded LDA - 'down' on power?? - silverzx - 12-03-2012

ginge191 Wrote:i was looking at this but the GT15 has an A/R of about 0.34 iirc... whereas K14 is 0.26, again, top of head numbers - low end on paper, the KKK is quicker BUT that's just paper...

Meh, I have no clue on figures.

I suppose if your confident swapping turbos it wouldn't hurt to give it a try.

Am I right in thinking the GT series is a newer design then the K14?

Re: Grounded LDA - 'down' on power?? - Dan! - 12-03-2012

silverzx Wrote:Am I right in thinking the GT series is a newer design then the K14?

Correct, the difference is like either using your finger to draw in the dirt or drawing something in photoshop. The K14's on 306's are pretty pre-historic now!

Re: Grounded LDA - 'down' on power?? - ginge191 - 12-03-2012

yeh, was dan said - not many people want small turbos, so the smallest garret A/R at least is the 15 range.. even the GT12'a have larger A/R's ... i was looking at increasing the hot side size with a smaller cold side but still reading around this before spamming the site for answers Smile

Re: Grounded LDA - 'down' on power?? - Ruan - 12-03-2012

Increasing the hotside size and keeping the coldside size is the last thing you want to do on these engines... All you'll do is increase lag and do nothing for top end performance...

They can pretty much take the next size of compressor on top of what they already have... TBH I'd stick with a GT15, they're about the best you'll get without surging issues... They're not slow either...

20psi vs 20psi K14 to GT15, the GT15 WILL be faster, however, you can spank a K14 up to 32psi+ and it'll be quicker still, but the GT15 won't cope... However, the GT15 will be a bit more "driveable"...

I'll go as far as saying, through 1st and probably half of 2nd a GT15'd car would be quicker than one with a T25... Given that the GT15'd car could grip... It'd be faster... They have some serious get up and go with a GT15 tbh...

Re: Grounded LDA - 'down' on power?? - ginge191 - 12-03-2012

Ruan Wrote:Increasing the hotside size and keeping the coldside size is the last thing you want to do on these engines... All you'll do is increase lag and do nothing for top end performance...

They can pretty much take the next size of compressor on top of what they already have... TBH I'd stick with a GT15, they're about the best you'll get without surging issues... They're not slow either...

20psi vs 20psi K14 to GT15, the GT15 WILL be faster, however, you can spank a K14 up to 32psi+ and it'll be quicker still, but the GT15 won't cope... However, the GT15 will be a bit more "driveable"...

I'll go as far as saying, through 1st and probably half of 2nd a GT15'd car would be quicker than one with a T25... Given that the GT15'd car could grip... It'd be faster... They have some serious get up and go with a GT15 tbh...

some interesting stuff there ruan, cheers pal.

I'll keep my eye's open, funds at the moment are absoloute diabolical, tuning my pump is about as expensive as im going at the moment Doh

Re: Grounded LDA - 'down' on power?? - Mattcheese31 - 12-03-2012

Ginge,don't confuse the starwheel with the boost compansator preload screw, they are 2 different things.....not sure if u were but thought i'd mention it...

Re: Grounded LDA - 'down' on power?? - studturbo - 12-03-2012

Get a TD04 on lad Big Grin

Re: Grounded LDA - 'down' on power?? - ginge191 - 12-03-2012

Mattcheese31 Wrote:Ginge,don't confuse the starwheel with the boost compansator preload screw, they are 2 different things.....not sure if u were but thought i'd mention it...

as seen 'down there' ??

[Image: hDWIo.jpg]

Re: Grounded LDA - 'down' on power?? - Mattcheese31 - 12-03-2012

that's the starwheel mate yeah . . Smile

Re: Grounded LDA - 'down' on power?? - silverzx - 12-03-2012

ginge191 Wrote:[Image: hDWIo.jpg]

Err, am I right in thinking the nut in that picture shows the LDA screwed all the way in? Thought it was supposed to be all the way out?

Re: Grounded LDA - 'down' on power?? - Mattcheese31 - 12-03-2012

. . . . . . . .

Re: Grounded LDA - 'down' on power?? - Dan! - 12-03-2012

No Trent, thats just the nut that holds the LDA pin to the diaphragm, not the screw on the LDA housing lid (which is what I think you're thinking of?)

Re: Grounded LDA - 'down' on power?? - silverzx - 12-03-2012

My bad, never had the lid off of mine so wouldn't know! Tongue

Re: Grounded LDA - 'down' on power?? - ginge191 - 13-03-2012

well.. that was exciting, adjusted the starwheel which the spring is seated, had a few fueling/top pin adjustments and got some nice results, among others - smoking rediculously pre/on-boost, other idle'ing , but i think i've found a nice spot now Smile

but i am going to have to adjust the turbo at some point - most probably install an MBC which i just sold Sad

Re: Grounded LDA - 'down' on power?? - mark_airey - 13-03-2012

studturbo Wrote:Get a TD04 on lad Big Grin

Because not spooling until 3K will help low down power loads :roll: