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+--- Thread: Alfa Romeo 156 1.9 JTD - Why wouldn't you? (/showthread.php?tid=20623)
Alfa Romeo 156 1.9 JTD - Why wouldn't you? - C.A.R. - 20-01-2014
So whilst I'm moving back home with my folks one of my aims is to upgrade my car at some point. This was going to be done at the end of my temporary lodging, but I can see the Mrs getting the hump with it and I think I'm due a bonus through work which could see me around £1200.
I need a 4-door and I do around 16k a year, so a diesel seems best. I've always loved the Alfas and the 156 is one of the better looking.
My criteria are that it must have a diesel engine (1.9 comes in 115, 140 and 150hp flavours - any will do) and it must have the leather interior, because it just has to.
I know you lot are a knowledgeable bunch, so please inform me why I shouldn't?
It's the 16v engine from Fiat, is it not?
Known EGR issues
DMF is also in there.
Any form of DPF?
Also trying to figure out tyre sizes to see how they add up, as I'll still be driving it like it's some form of tarmac rally daily.
RE: Alfa Romeo 156 1.9 JTD - Why wouldn't you? - lolsteve - 20-01-2014
Is it the jtd engine thats a hdi with a different name? like the tdci for the fiesta
RE: Alfa Romeo 156 1.9 JTD - Why wouldn't you? - C.A.R. - 20-01-2014
I didn't think the Alfa's had the HDi engine, I thought those were Citroen / Pug / Ford enterprises, whereas these had the 1.9 as found in a Vauxhall (CDTi)?
RE: Alfa Romeo 156 1.9 JTD - Why wouldn't you? - Ruan - 20-01-2014
Yeah, same engine as the Z19DTH, it's the Fiat one.
EGR f*cking valves. You will replace them 24/7 - NOTORIOUSLY bad for them.
DMF obviously has one, these days they're pretty much fine tbh, they're not a common failure point like they once were in the early VAG PDs.
DPF - don't know, depends on age, but I don't know how unreliable they are with them - later ones are usually OK, the ones that got a bad reputation were the 2.2 HDis and 2.0 8v HDis with Eolys additive that really gave DPFs a bad name, they're not TOO bad these days - mostly since they went away from the additive system.
Turbos are pretty much OK in them.
RE: Alfa Romeo 156 1.9 JTD - Why wouldn't you? - C.A.R. - 20-01-2014
Thanks Ruan, your guidance is always encouraging, your like some kind of diesel engine bible..
Just trying to work out if the EGR valve is easily blanked and mapped out / deleted via the owners clubs now. The 16" wheels look like the ones to go for, £55 for a Goodyear tyre is very reasonable. The 17s are £70/tyre and the 15s are about the same again.
Then need to talk to the insurance co I suppose...can't be any worse than that quote I got on the Audi though.
RE: Alfa Romeo 156 1.9 JTD - Why wouldn't you? - r3k1355 - 20-01-2014
buy one, they're awseome cars.
Black (obviously) with some tints and some lowering springs and you'll like like a Mafia hitman.
RE: Alfa Romeo 156 1.9 JTD - Why wouldn't you? - Seb_Ryan - 20-01-2014
The z19dth also suffers from swirl flaps and you can buy egr plates on ebay that have a 13mm hole in iirc - doesnt need mapping and stops most of the crap
RE: Alfa Romeo 156 1.9 JTD - Why wouldn't you? - Toms306 - 20-01-2014
It's the same engine that's in my Vectra (Z19DTH (150ps)), not sure what the 140ps version is, but the 115ps version is actually the 120ps in the Vec (Z19DT(120ps) which is only 8 valve, so no swirl flaps. Personally I haven't had great experience with it at all....but I know I tend to pull the short straw when it comes to cars lol.
Anyway, the EGR is stuck wide open on mine, put the half arsed blanking plate with holes in - it did nothing at all so have put a full blank in but that leaves an emmsisions light on on the Vec, may not on the Alfa. Can be mapped out fairly easily but obviously remaps cost money, haven't been able to find a cheap one like I can with certain other engines.
Turbo's whine like a bugger on all of them, so I assume that's not a fault but just annoying as sounds broken lol.
Swirl flap manifolds again are a common fault - usually because of the EGR valve sticking open and clogging the mani and jamming/breaking the flaps. Mine haven't completely broken yet, but are stiff to move and the bar that joins them is loose, only a matter of weeks before that's completely f*cked. There are some cheap bodges for this like gluing the flaps in one place, though Im not sure how good that is in reality.
There is no DPF on the manual Vectras with this engine, so I'd assume the Alfa won't have one either as it cant be any heavier.
Does have a DMF which is shit, the one on mine was replaced at 75k and isn't smooth or quiet despite only having done 30k since.
Thermostats are also a common item to fail, not sure if they're the same across the board but I guess it would be, and as it's the housing and sensors all in one lump it costs £70 for a genuine one!
Also the oil filter is in a stupid place....and pee's oil all over the exhaust when you remove it, so that smells nice for a day or two.
Only other common fault is the same with most turbo engines these days and that's split vac hoses, which cause huge boost lag but are easy to replace.
Oh and the injectors wiring, specifically the third injector plug can break down and cause a misfire, which there is a dealer fix for.
So that's my opinion on the engine lol....but as for the car, the Alfa 156 looks awesome imo, in dark grey as well, mmmmmmm.
RE: Alfa Romeo 156 1.9 JTD - Why wouldn't you? - 1616six - 20-01-2014
My latest forte, love these engines.
There's a chap not a million miles from you over in Woodbridge who is a self taught genius mapping these engines.
He will completely disable the EGR system and write a custom map for £80! This will see circa 200bhp and 330 lb ft torque from a 150 engine.
My latest is EGR removal via mapping, EGR blanked both ends with EGR cooler removed, the strongest map he can write without a hybrid & uprated injectors, popcorn rev limiter (sounds like a petrol rally car but it's a derv - fecking awesome).
I'd never had any EGR probs but they are common, my turbo is on its last legs but any 10yr old diesel will be in the same position if it's got average miles. Good excuse for a hybrid.
All I can say is if you get one you'll love it once you've met my friend in Woodbridge...
RE: Alfa Romeo 156 1.9 JTD - Why wouldn't you? - C.A.R. - 20-01-2014
Cheers guys, think I'm decided now. Just need to convince the Mrs we need a new car now and not later...
RE: Alfa Romeo 156 1.9 JTD - Why wouldn't you? - Mal - 20-01-2014
Yeah, these Alfas love rusting floorpans. In extreme cases the rot goes to the front and the legs go rotten. I can get pics of an extreme case in daylight if one wishes.
Like here and here to begin with.
Upper wishbones go often, easy replace. Get TRW ones
Polybushing would be a huge help. The kits start at about £150 for the full car (or £600 from superflex)
Make sure you upgrade the brakes, as standard they're piss poor and fade after a few mins
Wheels from a GTV will step it out an extra 10mm per wheel. TI wheels are nice but buckle easily
If the elec rear windows refuse to work, it's usally the plug on the door and not the motor
Upgrading to leather? Seat plugs under the seat require a 2.2k ohm resistor to fool the airbag ECU (here's one "ECU" I discovered in one such car). This applies to cars with bags in the seat going to a non bag seat
All in all, not a bad car. Don't know too much about the JTD's but the old TD version of those engines were fantastic
Source: I have 4 here....
RE: Alfa Romeo 156 1.9 JTD - Why wouldn't you? - swampy - 20-01-2014
Try and get a facelift model they look so much nicer.
The leather is nice, the dark grey looks nice just a pity they don't come with heated seats.
Mine is the 2.4jtd 20 valve and has bundles of torque.
Look out for rumbling from the drive train under acceleration, normaly the inner cv joints are worn, had this on mine and it turned out there was no grease in the drivers side joint.
Filled it with grease and all has being fine now for 12k.
As for the brakes I don't find them that bad, give them a good clean up, grease the sliders etc change the fluid and they are fine ( though I have also fitted braided lines to mine )
Drove mine to Spain last year ,did 2500 mikes in ten days, used less than three tanks of fuel an that's fully laden and with the ac on full time.
Front wishbones are prone to making a noise and are a right pain to change but fit good parts and they last a while, also make sure if doing the uppers that you remove the bushes and coat them in red rubber grease
RE: Alfa Romeo 156 1.9 JTD - Why wouldn't you? - C.A.R. - 21-01-2014
Mal, is this rust limited to the pre-facelift models or does it affect all of them?
I've been told by the Alfa Owners club to basically consider any car regardless of interior because you can pick leathers up for £100-200 and it's a 2 hour job to swap them.
Brakes can't be any worse than my old Celica and I won't be giving it too much hassle anyway, traffic is always getting worse of a morning so it will spend more time going nowhere at all...
An old work colleague had a 147 and the suspension seemed to be made of cheese, constantly having to have bits changed - I'm hoping this isn't a similar problem on the bigger 156?!
How much is the tax on the 2.4 Swampy? I'm struggling to find out tax bands etc.
RE: Alfa Romeo 156 1.9 JTD - Why wouldn't you? - swampy - 21-01-2014
The 147 and 156 are basically the same car.
147 being hatch
156 being saloon
Most of the suspension and running gear is the same
Tax on the 2.4 was 120 for six monthes
RE: Alfa Romeo 156 1.9 JTD - Why wouldn't you? - jammapic - 21-01-2014
...and they remap like an absolute BEAUTY! :-) Done a couple, and 200hp is no issue on the 150 variant!
JP
RE: Alfa Romeo 156 1.9 JTD - Why wouldn't you? - 1616six - 21-01-2014
(21-01-2014, 11:41 AM)jammapic Wrote: ...and they remap like an absolute BEAUTY! :-) Done a couple, and 200hp is no issue on the 150 variant!
JP
This...
RE: Alfa Romeo 156 1.9 JTD - Why wouldn't you? - Eeyore - 21-01-2014
(20-01-2014, 02:09 PM)C.A.R. Wrote: I'm due a bonus through work which could see me around £1200.
I need a 4-door and I do around 16k a year, so a diesel seems best. I've always loved the Alfas and the 156 is one of the better looking.
My criteria are that it must have a diesel engine (1.9 comes in 115, 140 and 150hp flavours - any will do) and it must have the leather interior, because it just has to.
Sounds like it ticks all your boxes and you say you love it so yeh... get it.
Just be careful of the normal things. DMF clutches are expensive to replace, the tyres may be expensive and the known egr issue isnt great but it sounds like youre pretty set on it!
RE: Alfa Romeo 156 1.9 JTD - Why wouldn't you? - jammapic - 21-01-2014
If the budget stretches to it, the 2.4 JTD's are amazing.....
RE: Alfa Romeo 156 1.9 JTD - Why wouldn't you? - swampy - 21-01-2014
(21-01-2014, 01:08 PM)jammapic Wrote: If the budget stretches to it, the 2.4 JTD's are amazing.....
Yes they are
To be fair I thought about getting my 20v remapped but it's got plenty of poke as it is , and has a healthy diet for front tyres!!
RE: Alfa Romeo 156 1.9 JTD - Why wouldn't you? - Mal - 21-01-2014
(21-01-2014, 10:41 AM)C.A.R. Wrote: Mal, is this rust limited to the pre-facelift models or does it affect all of them?
I've been told by the Alfa Owners club to basically consider any car regardless of interior because you can pick leathers up for £100-200 and it's a 2 hour job to swap them.
Brakes can't be any worse than my old Celica and I won't be giving it too much hassle anyway, traffic is always getting worse of a morning so it will spend more time going nowhere at all...
An old work colleague had a 147 and the suspension seemed to be made of cheese, constantly having to have bits changed - I'm hoping this isn't a similar problem on the bigger 156?!
How much is the tax on the 2.4 Swampy? I'm struggling to find out tax bands etc.
I've seen too many 156's end up in scrap yards with rotten floor pans. Most were the rear floorpans. If I'd seen this in time today I could have got a snap of a V6 I'm dismantling, the drivers side floor and bulkhead are completely rotten
Leathers are a nice place to be and are cheap (I sold a full blue set with 3rd headrest for €60 for example) but beware of wind up windows behind on some leather equipped cars. If converting to rear elec, cars from 1998 - late 2000 have different looms to cars from 2001 onwards so a door loom from a 2000 car won't fit a 2001 car and vice versa (as I found out one summer :p) switches are different too (coloured sockets vs all black)
Brakes aren't an issue on smaller engined cars such as the 1.6 or 1.8 however anything heavier or more powerful will fade the brakes at an alarming rate (whilst test driving a 2.5 I went to slow down and turn up my road however the brakes did absolutely nothing and I just had t coast along for another bit down the main road..... Admittedly spirited driving caused that
)The 156 has the same double wishbone setup as the 147. But polybushing will eliminate the need to be constantly changing upper wishbones
Here tax on a 2.4 is €1034 and a 1.9 is €710 (same as my 406) it can't be anything near that in the UK!
RE: Alfa Romeo 156 1.9 JTD - Why wouldn't you? - sherman306 - 22-01-2014
I'd get a the 2.4 10v engine cheap to buy look cool I had a remapped 140bhp one and was really really quick 38 quid for complete egr delete kit no dpf to worry about smooth ride leather In nearly all of them all round really nice car
RE: Alfa Romeo 156 1.9 JTD - Why wouldn't you? - Poodle - 22-01-2014
(21-01-2014, 01:08 PM)jammapic Wrote: If the budget stretches to it, the 2.4 JTD's are amazing.....
Got to agree with this, lovely engines, awesome 5 pot soundtrack too.
RE: Alfa Romeo 156 1.9 JTD - Why wouldn't you? - Jimbo - 22-01-2014
I mot'd one of these today 04 reg on 51k
I was shocked how bad it was
Both front top arm ball joints
A rear TCA was knackered
Brake pipes rusty
Just in general not a nice car, its owned by a lady so not abused.
The floor was starting to rot around the rear also