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+--- Thread: Ball joint, positive camber on drivers wheel now sorted (/showthread.php?tid=20600)
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Ball joint, positive camber on drivers wheel now sorted - titch - 19-01-2014
Was looking at the car the other day and noticed that the drivers front wheel looks like it is leaning in at the bottom slightly. I have never noticed this before and recently i have just changed the ball joint, i know the ball joint diameter differs 16mm and 18mm mine are 18mm. But i didn't realise that they differed between non power steering and power steering models, and after a quick look on google the non power steering ones are shorter from ball joint to bolt holes, now if i was given the wrong one a non power steering one and fitted it to mine as it is shorter ( i don't know by how much ) could that cause this do you think ?
And does any body know the difference in length between the 2?
Cheers Titch
RE: Ball joint - Piggy - 19-01-2014
Yeah it will cause camber differences
RE: Ball joint - titch - 19-01-2014
Cool cheers, might pop in tomorrow and physically look at both to see the difference and then make sure i get the right one. I just presumed that they had given me the correct one, but knowing the inbreds at my local gsf it is quite possible that they gave me the wrong one.
Cheers Titch
RE: Ball joint - Toms306 - 19-01-2014
The non PAS one's were only 16mm I thought though? And HDi's will (should) be 18mm so it wouldn't fit at all.
RE: Ball joint - titch - 19-01-2014
I don't know if they do a non power steering 18mm one, will pop in and check tomorrow.
RE: Ball joint - DazzaHDI - 19-01-2014
As you said there's two, 16mm and 18mm and I thought that was the only difference. I've swapped wishbones on both my hdi's and they've both been 18mm and I've never been asked about the PAS etc when buying them.
RE: Ball joint - underground375 - 20-01-2014
Ive got 18mm on my Xs. but when I went in to get a replacement they was sure I had 16mm.
You can normaly tell by the size. but ive always noticed the 16mm ball joints have a round indent on the top of it.
RE: Ball joint - titch - 20-01-2014
The power steering ones are longer from the joint to the mounting holes, so if i have fitted a non power steering one to mine with power steering as it's shorter i am wondering if it would cause the wheel to lean in ( slight positive camber )
I am happy with the 16mm and 18mm mine has 18mm but that is just the diameter of the joint.
Looking on euro car parts they list them with power steering and without power steering.
RE: Ball joint - titch - 20-01-2014
Spoke to Pug this morning, and they did do 2 lengths of ball joint a shorter one for non pas and the pas one was slightly longer. But as mine is a late car (18mm) joints, they said that all late cars came with power steering so it sounds as if like Toms306 mentioned above that the 2 different length ones were only in the 16mm pas and non pas, and all late cars fitted with 18mm ones had power steering as standard, so only one length avaliable.
So i guess this isn't the issue, what else would cause the drivers side wheel to have slight positive camber, could the top mounts cause this, as the steering on the drivers wheel does feel a little sloppy.
It has had new tre's and inner tie bars in the last 6 months , a new non ovaled hub on the drivers side and drop links, the springs and shocks are not that old maybe a year or so, but the old top mounts were reused when the shocks and springs were changed. So they are still the original ones so have covered over 150k.
Cheers Titch
RE: Ball joint, positive camber on drivers wheel - titch - 20-01-2014
Just thought i would add a few pics, Excuse the state of the front bumper i have got a freshly painted one waiting to go on.
Also as expected the drivers side tyre is starting to wear on the outside edge.
Passanger side, which is ok.
![[Image: IMAG0952_zpsf15b3b02.jpg]](http://s242.photobucket.com/user/pipeboy/media/IMAG0952_zpsf15b3b02.jpg.html)
Then the drivers side which seems to have slight positive camber, so the top is further out than the bottom.
![[Image: IMAG0953_zpsd37e2582.jpg]](http://s242.photobucket.com/user/pipeboy/media/IMAG0953_zpsd37e2582.jpg.html)
![[Image: IMAG0954_zps13e2981a.jpg]](http://s242.photobucket.com/user/pipeboy/media/IMAG0954_zps13e2981a.jpg.html)
RE: Ball joint, positive camber on drivers wheel pics added - Toms306 - 20-01-2014
Well that's definitely not right lol.
How did you fit the BJ? Was there any adjustment in the wishbone bolt holes at all?
And I take it you haven't hit anything hard lately to bend the wishbone or anything like that?
RE: Ball joint, positive camber on drivers wheel pics added - Grant - 20-01-2014
Definitely the ball joint. Had exactly this problem myself before.
RE: Ball joint, positive camber on drivers wheel pics added - titch - 20-01-2014
(20-01-2014, 06:05 PM)Grant Wrote: Definitely the ball joint. Had exactly this problem myself before.
When you say definatly the ball joint, do you mean gone, or the wrong length?
The ball joint on there is not that old maybe a month or 2.
The steering when turning the wheel to the right feels wooly and lose compared to the left.
(20-01-2014, 06:01 PM)Toms306 Wrote: Well that's definitely not right lol.
How did you fit the BJ? Was there any adjustment in the wishbone bolt holes at all?
And I take it you haven't hit anything hard lately to bend the wishbone or anything like that?
No not hit anything hard, it could of been like it for a while but i only noticed it the other day.
the old ball joint was bolted to the wishbone so removed it and fitted the new with new pinch bolt and nut.
When you say adjustment in the bolt hole?
RE: Ball joint, positive camber on drivers wheel pics added - Toms306 - 20-01-2014
Ah, maybe I'm thinking of the Golf, one car I replaced a BJ on had elongated bolt holes so you can move the BJ to adjust the camber, maybe it wasn't the 306 though.
The steering will feel crap with +ve camber as you're losing a lot of contact patch like that lol.
Also I'm sure it was you that hit a bump in the road about a month ago and complained about an odd feeling then??
RE: Ball joint, positive camber on drivers wheel pics added - Grant - 20-01-2014
I put a non power steering ball joint on my car with power steering. It have horrid amounts of positive camber.
The ball joint wearing would not give that much camber
RE: Ball joint, positive camber on drivers wheel pics added - Toms306 - 20-01-2014
(20-01-2014, 06:16 PM)Grant Wrote: I put a non power steering ball joint on my car with power steering. It have horrid amounts of positive camber.
The ball joint wearing would not give that much camber
But I thought it'd been confirmed that the Non PAS ones were only 16mm?
RE: Ball joint, positive camber on drivers wheel pics added - titch - 20-01-2014
(20-01-2014, 06:16 PM)Toms306 Wrote: Ah, maybe I'm thinking of the Golf, one car I replaced a BJ on had elongated bolt holes so you can move the BJ to adjust the camber, maybe it wasn't the 306 though.
The steering will feel crap with +ve camber as you're losing a lot of contact patch like that lol.
Also I'm sure it was you that hit a bump in the road about a month ago and complained about an odd feeling then??
Yeah it was but, it wasn't a bump it was a dip, not a pot hole just a bit of camber in the road, what i had then was horrible the back end wanted to keep coming round, a new non ovaled hub sorted that. I had most of suspension componants out to check them over then and nothing was bent and i didn't notice the camber after that only since i recently fitted a new ball joint.This feels totally different, but it has got me stumped, i guess the shock could be slightly bent or the top mount gone?.
RE: Ball joint, positive camber on drivers wheel pics added - Grant - 20-01-2014
I'm just telling you what happened when I did it. ECP f*cked up my order.
RE: Ball joint, positive camber on drivers wheel pics added - titch - 20-01-2014
(20-01-2014, 06:16 PM)Grant Wrote: I put a non power steering ball joint on my car with power steering. It have horrid amounts of positive camber.
The ball joint wearing would not give that much camber
Were your ball joints 18mm or 16mm?
Maybe Pug just fobbed me off.
RE: Ball joint, positive camber on drivers wheel pics added - Grant - 20-01-2014
18mm mate
RE: Ball joint, positive camber on drivers wheel pics added - titch - 20-01-2014
(20-01-2014, 06:34 PM)Grant Wrote: 18mm mate
Good, so that means it could be the wrong ball joint then, the place i went to this morning mill autos, did it by reg number and said there was only one listed for mine, it was a delphi one. I will check it after work tomorrow when i fit it and see if it is longer than the one thats in there ( which came from GSF ).
I guess i could always whip the one off the pass side and stick it on the drivers side to see if it makes a difference as i know the pass wheel sits correctly.
RE: Ball joint, positive camber on drivers wheel pics added - Grant - 20-01-2014
PM'd
RE: Ball joint, positive camber on drivers wheel pics added - Alan_M - 20-01-2014
Just to confuse things, my 306 1.4 has PAS yet according to ServiceBox it uses non-PAS balljoints.
RE: Ball joint, positive camber on drivers wheel pics added - Seb_Ryan - 20-01-2014
Ive had both 16mm and 18mm with PAS.. if youve put the 16 in an 18 hole it will pop out rather quick.. happened to my mate.
RE: Ball joint, positive camber on drivers wheel pics added - titch - 20-01-2014
(20-01-2014, 07:51 PM)Seb_Ryan Wrote: Ive had both 16mm and 18mm with PAS.. if youve put the 16 in an 18 hole it will pop out rather quick.. happened to my mate.
It's not the 16mm or 18mm i am worried about, i have 18mm, it's the length between the ball joint and the mnounting holes on the pas and non pas.
This is a pic of the Delphi one i got today TC960, but won't know the difference in length if there is any between the two until i get the old one off.
![[Image: IMAG0955_zpscf09066f.jpg]](http://s242.photobucket.com/user/pipeboy/media/IMAG0955_zpscf09066f.jpg.html)
RE: Ball joint, positive camber on drivers wheel pics added - John1.4 - 20-01-2014
theres quite a difference in length, i had one from my old zx i planned to use when i needed to, but when compared to the one on my car now, it was about an inch too short
RE: Ball joint, positive camber on drivers wheel pics added - titch - 20-01-2014
(20-01-2014, 09:04 PM)John1.4 Wrote: theres quite a difference in length, i had one from my old zx i planned to use when i needed to, but when compared to the one on my car now, it was about an inch too short
Ok thanks i need to wait until tomorrow and check the new one up against the old one.
RE: Ball joint, positive camber on drivers wheel pics added - titch - 20-01-2014
Went out to the garage earlier to just have a quick look, and looking at both ball joints they both look the same length so got a horrible feeling when i change it tomorrow i will still have the same problem and going to have to look a little deeper
RE: Ball joint, positive camber on drivers wheel pics added - Piggy - 20-01-2014
Only other thing I can think which would cause that sort of issue is maybe inner arm bushes
RE: Ball joint, positive camber on drivers wheel pics added - titch - 20-01-2014
what do you mean by inner arm bushes Piggy?