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+--- Thread: 106 GTi vs 306 GTi6/Rallye (/showthread.php?tid=20408)
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106 GTi vs 306 GTi6/Rallye - c.gerrard - 13-01-2014
Came to a bit of a realisation the other day that the hill climber won't be ready for the start and most likely the majority of the car season and I would like to get something sorted.
I know a few of you guys have got 106's and at some point probably owned one, so just wondering how they compare to one another, in terms of handling, power, economy etc?
Just a bit lost as I've never driven or been in a 106 GTi before.
I am not wanting a diesel for a bit.
RE: 106 GTi vs 306 GTi6/Rallye - Niall - 13-01-2014
106 pros
light and fantastic handling (arguably better than a 306)
Gti will easily stick with a gti6 until 60/70ish
Still returns unto 45mpg if you drive like my nan
cheap to mod
106 cons
tiny and uncomfortable if you are any more than 6ft tall
incredibly basic in terms of spec and build quality
comparable to a tin of sainsburys basics beans in a accident
RE: 106 GTi vs 306 GTi6/Rallye - Eeyore - 13-01-2014
yeh performance wise a 106 is nailing it instantly just being so light. But they do feel dated even more so than a 306. And any decent gti seems to be holding its value well. An good unmodified one is often 1k+
RE: 106 GTi vs 306 GTi6/Rallye - Scott - 13-01-2014
I'd happily own one for a track car, but 306s are bad enough safety wise so I wouldn't want a 106 as a daily in all honesty.
RE: 106 GTi vs 306 GTi6/Rallye - Niall - 13-01-2014
http://youtu.be/6prtCtxk1ho
May i just point out if you do get a 106, DO NOT go anywhere near any Volvos!
(1:41 if you can't be bothered to watch all the way through)
RE: 106 GTi vs 306 GTi6/Rallye - THE_Liam - 13-01-2014
Right, I've had a 106 GTI and driven a few 6's and Rallyes so I feel qualified for this one.
I'd say the 106 is a better handler by miles, it turns in so sharply and feels really light and neutral in a bend it's unreal, better than a 306 or 205, lift off oversteer is there but only if you provoke it, and the steering is a delight. Engine is mega revvy and goes mental at 4k, sounds brilliant with pops and bangs on a standard exhaust, and on a run to Cornwall I got 48mpg, plus with one less gear change it will match a '6 to 65mph, its a better car in my opinion I have to be honest, although its cramped if you have size 12s like me and built even cheaper than a 306.
My recommendation? Neither, a Saxo VTS. Same as a 106 GTI but half price
RE: 106 GTi vs 306 GTi6/Rallye - Niall - 13-01-2014
(13-01-2014, 07:31 PM)THE_Liam Wrote: My recommendation? Neither, a Saxo VTS. Same as a 106 GTI but half price
Yeah but then you just look like a homo
RE: 106 GTi vs 306 GTi6/Rallye - THE_Liam - 13-01-2014
Meh, worth it for a half price car. To be honest I think Saxos will age well, 10 years ago you wouldn't be seen dead in an XR2i or Nova GSi but now they're £££ in good original nick, Saxos will be the same. Im still tempted by a tidy VTR considering they'll do 30mpg round town, cost the same as a DT to insure and good ones are 500 quid, plus with 100bhp in 900kg they're nippy enough to be great fun...
RE: 106 GTi vs 306 GTi6/Rallye - ozonehostile - 13-01-2014
106 16v Ftw. I can't believe how well they go around a corner, and 120 odd bhp in such a small car they go unbelievably well, like Liam says, easily keep up with a gti6 until the road straightens out
Alot better on fuel, easier to modify etc
RE: 106 GTi vs 306 GTi6/Rallye - welshpug - 13-01-2014
106 doesn't handle that much better at all, just feels it as its lighter.
up to 80 a mildly cammed 106 did not pull on my mildly cammed ZX gti6, from thereon my zx pulled and pulled all the way to, erm.
7450 rpm,
ahem
106 has a shit gearbox, shit rear beam, not enough wheel travel.
306 is heavier, poorer on fuel, but stronger shell.
RE: 106 GTi vs 306 GTi6/Rallye - THE_Liam - 13-01-2014
Handling is all about feel mate, if it feels better it is, your thinking of roadholding. Why does a 106 have a shit gearbox? Much faster and smoother shift than a 306 with closer ratios, and why is the beam shit?
RE: 106 GTi vs 306 GTi6/Rallye - welshpug - 13-01-2014
why does a 106 have a shit gearbox? fook knows, ask Peugeot!
guess you've not been in a good 306 then.
RE: 106 GTi vs 306 GTi6/Rallye - THE_Liam - 13-01-2014
No mate, can't have been, all of the 5 I've owned and 20+ I've driven must have been dogs
I'm just asking, what's shit about the gearbox and beam? The only thing I can think of is the 5th gear ratio in a 106 GTI, 4k at 70mph does not make for relaxing long-distance driving...
RE: 106 GTi vs 306 GTi6/Rallye - c.gerrard - 13-01-2014
Do you mean shit, as in ratios?
Or the gearbox in general is shit?
I remember they have got a bad reputation for being a tad unreliable, but that was down to a gear shaft or synchro's, wasn't it?
(13-01-2014, 08:25 PM)ozonehostile Wrote: 106 16v Ftw. I can't believe how well they go around a corner, and 120 odd bhp in such a small car they go unbelievably well, like Liam says, easily keep up with a gti6 until the road straightens out
Alot better on fuel, easier to modify etc
Was interested to see what your input would be.
I am going to be horrible though. If you had to choose right now, between your 306 or your 106, what would you go for?
RE: 106 GTi vs 306 GTi6/Rallye - Martin306 - 13-01-2014
106 GTi gearboxes are only rubbish if they aren't looked after. Apart from that, the first thing to go is usually the input shaft bearings, then synchros wearing - due to people who can't drive correctly.
106 would leave a 6 in the twisties, but on straights the 6 is a lot faster. My 106 GTi is out of puff at about 130mph, the 6 I had went onto 150mph no bother.
I do agree about the axles in the 106, they're a bit weak. The 2 bearings on the one stub pin are too close together and the contact area is small, so they break easily. Then there's the lack of grease from factory, which the seals then dry out and crack which lets water in and the stub pin rusts...
Also, Liam it's 3500 rpm at 70mph
it's 4000 with a 1.1 box or a Rallye box.
RE: 106 GTi vs 306 GTi6/Rallye - THE_Liam - 14-01-2014
Really? Mine must have had a Rallye box then, it was a very close ratio box, you never dropped out of the power band on a hoon. I really miss my 106 actually, I'd have another in a heartbeat.
RE: 106 GTi vs 306 GTi6/Rallye - Ruan - 14-01-2014
106GTis have possibly the worst ratios ever from the factory - the VTR is even worse. They're horrifically bad, had they have had a shorter box, they'd be amazing.
To me it TOTALLY depends on the roads you drive on...
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Petworh&hl=en&ll=51.037953,-0.639074&spn=0.012832,0.023882&sll=51.291982,-0.414734&sspn=0.81327,1.528473&t=h&hq=Petworh&radius=15000&z=16&layer=c&cbll=51.037465,-0.638379&panoid=4lSI6YPu7gRKhib6F5jOqA&cbp=12,326.36,,0,17.87
If you're driving the above - GTI6 EVERY day... That gearbox and chassis combo - every time I took it on a long, fast sweeping A road, I couldn't fail to be impressed by the combo...
Soon as you take it onto:
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Gorran+Haven&hl=en&ll=50.299511,-4.875655&spn=0.02607,0.047765&sll=51.037468,-0.638387&sspn=0.012832,0.023882&t=h&hnear=Gorran+Haven,+Cornwall,+United+Kingdom&z=15&layer=c&cbll=50.299501,-4.875857&panoid=NymOoc0uU08O7tgoexIe6w&cbp=12,270.65,,0,12.86
Give me the 106GTi with a Rallye box every day... Or a VNT'd DT with the stock box...
The GTi6 frustrates me on most back roads, gearbox is too long, engine has nowhere near enough grunt out of corners... When you've got 300lb.ft rampaging through the front wheels out of a corner through 2nd and 3rd from 20-50mph, GTi6s can't hang with (even if they can, you're just WAITING for the power, and you've had to change down to first) and you're just getting into the fun part of the RPMs, having used up most of the road, then you're back on the brakes...
RE: 106 GTi vs 306 GTi6/Rallye - powerandtorque - 14-01-2014
If you've not driven a 106/Saxo before, check that you can get on with the pedal box as it's unbelieveably cramped.
RE: 106 GTi vs 306 GTi6/Rallye - Ruan - 14-01-2014
My size 16s DO NOT get on well with 106/Saxo pedal boxes, have to drive them barefoot with my toes.
RE: 106 GTi vs 306 GTi6/Rallye - ozonehostile - 14-01-2014
(13-01-2014, 10:44 PM)c.gerrard Wrote: Do you mean shit, as in ratios?
Or the gearbox in general is shit?
I remember they have got a bad reputation for being a tad unreliable, but that was down to a gear shaft or synchro's, wasn't it?
(13-01-2014, 08:25 PM)ozonehostile Wrote: 106 16v Ftw. I can't believe how well they go around a corner, and 120 odd bhp in such a small car they go unbelievably well, like Liam says, easily keep up with a gti6 until the road straightens out
Alot better on fuel, easier to modify etc
Was interested to see what your input would be.
I am going to be horrible though. If you had to choose right now, between your 306 or your 106, what would you go for?
The biggest problem with tu gearboxes is the diff is made from chocolate, it let's go without warning and shits itself all over the road, much like the conrod issue with xud engines. And yeah, they're pretty short ratio but it's what makes them such a pleasure to hoon down twisty roads, which tbh is the whole point of a small Peugeot, not flat out speed
If I could only keep one or the other then it would have to be my rallye, it's just so much more rewarding driving a quick well sorted petrol, diesels are very fun and I love them, but it does get to the point with the constant overheating, having to spend £££ to get them anywhere near the spec you want etc etc
I do really highly recommend a gti6 though, especially if you can find a ph1, they are definitely coming upto being a future classic and now would be the time to get one
RE: 106 GTi vs 306 GTi6/Rallye - adamm306 - 14-01-2014
size 16's?!?!?!!? jesus there's me with my measly size 7's
RE: 106 GTi vs 306 GTi6/Rallye - THE_Liam - 14-01-2014
I'm a size 12, and I find if I wear Converse (which I almost always do) and trim the carpet back the pedal box isn't too bad, but in boots it's impossible!
RE: 106 GTi vs 306 GTi6/Rallye - Dean - 14-01-2014
16's? They're bloody canones... i'm only a 8, and a 106 pedal box is cramped for me.
RE: 106 GTi vs 306 GTi6/Rallye - ozonehostile - 14-01-2014
Oh and I should mention, s1 rallye box is perfect for the 16v engines, standard box is a bit Erm.... Shit haha
It does take a bit of getting used to the pedal offset but once you are it's other cars that feel wrong
RE: 106 GTi vs 306 GTi6/Rallye - c.gerrard - 14-01-2014
A lot to take in there.
(14-01-2014, 09:52 AM)ozonehostile Wrote:(13-01-2014, 10:44 PM)c.gerrard Wrote: Do you mean shit, as in ratios?
Or the gearbox in general is shit?
I remember they have got a bad reputation for being a tad unreliable, but that was down to a gear shaft or synchro's, wasn't it?
(13-01-2014, 08:25 PM)ozonehostile Wrote: 106 16v Ftw. I can't believe how well they go around a corner, and 120 odd bhp in such a small car they go unbelievably well, like Liam says, easily keep up with a gti6 until the road straightens out
Alot better on fuel, easier to modify etc
Was interested to see what your input would be.
I am going to be horrible though. If you had to choose right now, between your 306 or your 106, what would you go for?
The biggest problem with tu gearboxes is the diff is made from chocolate, it let's go without warning and shits itself all over the road, much like the conrod issue with xud engines. And yeah, they're pretty short ratio but it's what makes them such a pleasure to hoon down twisty roads, which tbh is the whole point of a small Peugeot, not flat out speed
If I could only keep one or the other then it would have to be my rallye, it's just so much more rewarding driving a quick well sorted petrol, diesels are very fun and I love them, but it does get to the point with the constant overheating, having to spend £££ to get them anywhere near the spec you want etc etc
I do really highly recommend a gti6 though, especially if you can find a ph1, they are definitely coming upto being a future classic and now would be the time to get one
I know what you mean about the diesel. Last year taught me that track time with a diesel will only work if lots of the components are uprated.
Plus, I don't want to just bomb around with a "stage 1." Just not quick enough.
Having said that though, I get the impression a 106 would need a fair bit of work to get the best driving pleasure out of it.
I'm 5"11 so just about ok.
Your standards are waaaay to high Ruan
RE: 106 GTi vs 306 GTi6/Rallye - THE_Liam - 14-01-2014
A 106 GTI or Saxo VTS as standard would make an excellent track car mate, yes if you want amazing lap times then it'd need some work but if you just want to enjoy it they have a great engine and a brilliant chassis. Few others to consider:
Ford Puma 1.7 - Chassis so good it could be a pug, brilliant revvy engine with 125bhp, very cheap now
Citroen Xsara VTS - a 5-speed, ugly '6 for much less money
BMW E36 - right wheel drive, big 6-pot, pretty bloody quick if you get a 325 or 328
RE: 106 GTi vs 306 GTi6/Rallye - c.gerrard - 15-01-2014
So the 106 GTi and the Rallye have different engines?
Or is it just the box that is different?
(14-01-2014, 02:15 PM)THE_Liam Wrote: A 106 GTI or Saxo VTS as standard would make an excellent track car mate, yes if you want amazing lap times then it'd need some work but if you just want to enjoy it they have a great engine and a brilliant chassis. Few others to consider:
Ford Puma 1.7 - Chassis so good it could be a pug, brilliant revvy engine with 125bhp, very cheap now
Citroen Xsara VTS - a 5-speed, ugly '6 for much less money
BMW E36 - right wheel drive, big 6-pot, pretty bloody quick if you get a 325 or 328
Thanks for the suggestions, but would prefer to remain French for now
RE: 106 GTi vs 306 GTi6/Rallye - THE_Liam - 15-01-2014
Different engines as well mate, the S1 Rallye has a 1.3 TU, the S2 has the same 1.6 8 valve TU as the Saxo VTR.
RE: 106 GTi vs 306 GTi6/Rallye - Tom - 16-01-2014
Just an idea, Ibiza Cupra R? Getting cheap these days, shit as standard but they have a turbo and room for improvement.
But on topic, i've always liked the '6, it might be because theres alot of roads down here where you can let it loose, that and they make a cracking noise.
RE: 106 GTi vs 306 GTi6/Rallye - ozonehostile - 16-01-2014
(15-01-2014, 10:57 PM)c.gerrard Wrote: So the 106 GTi and the Rallye have different engines?
Or is it just the box that is different?
The 106gti is a 1.6 16v, Tu5j4 engine, same as the Saxo vts
Then you have the s2 106 rallye, 1.6 8v, and is the Peugeot equivalent of the Saxo vtr, same engine, running gear, slightly better gearbox and obviously the rallye is waaaay cooler
Then the one with the ultimate gearbox, s1 106 rallye. 1.3 engine, Revvy as f*ck, and combined with an absolute beauty of a short ratio gearbox, unique to the s1 rallye. The 1.3 gearbox bolts directly onto the 16v engines so best of both worlds.
Only problem I had with a rallye box on a 1.6 engine is the 1.3 clutch and flywheel have to be used (180mm) so ended up shitting itself after a few full throttle starts ;-)
Uprated clutch and you should be fine :-)