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+--- Thread: Ph1 gti xsi question :) (/showthread.php?tid=20303)
Ph1 gti xsi question :) - underground375 - 10-01-2014
Hi all did the gti or xsi ph1 have a transponder? it got me thinking when it comes to engine changes from the later models.
RE: Ph1 gti xsi question :) - powerandtorque - 10-01-2014
Not sure if it changed on the very last Phase 1's, but certainly most that I've seen have a keypad immobiliser and it's the Phase 2 and 3 cars that have the transponder based setup.
Very early Phase 1 XSi's won't have an immobiliser at all.
RE: Ph1 gti xsi question :) - underground375 - 10-01-2014
Whats the best way of getting round putting a ph2 engine into a ph1 would I need to unlock the ecu or is it possible to do it another way?
RE: Ph1 gti xsi question :) - powerandtorque - 10-01-2014
I've not had much to do with the early cars, but as far as I'm aware, if you soft-unlock the ECU from the donor Ph2/3 car (ignition onto 2nd stage then unplug ECU with ignition still on) I believe that it should just work plugging it into an early keypad car.
If it doesn't, using an unlocked ECU with the keypad disconnected should do, as that's effectively how the conversions are run when fitted to 205's and 309's since the ECU will remain in an unlocked state when there's nothing wired in to re-lock it. You won't have any immobiliser if that's the case though unless you were to fit a seperate aftermarket unit.
As said though, I've not actually tried this so worth seeking clarification from someone that has.
RE: Ph1 gti xsi question :) - underground375 - 10-01-2014
Thanks powerandtorque, its all fun and games isn't it
RE: Ph1 gti xsi question :) - Ruan - 10-01-2014
(10-01-2014, 12:28 PM)powerandtorque Wrote: I've not had much to do with the early cars, but as far as I'm aware, if you soft-unlock the ECU from the donor Ph2/3 car (ignition onto 2nd stage then unplug ECU with ignition still on) I believe that it should just work plugging it into an early keypad car.
If it doesn't, using an unlocked ECU with the keypad disconnected should do, as that's effectively how the conversions are run when fitted to 205's and 309's since the ECU will remain in an unlocked state when there's nothing wired in to re-lock it. You won't have any immobiliser if that's the case though unless you were to fit a seperate aftermarket unit.
As said though, I've not actually tried this so worth seeking clarification from someone that has.
Pretty much this. Though I'd never trust the unlocking with turning on and unplugging - it's just likely to work for a few weeks, then one day lock itself again and leave you stranded.
Wiring might be slightly different across ph1/2 but nothing too severe, usually 306s are pretty standardised unlike 106s. Most likely thing to change is some cooling system components - but if you just pull the entire system out of the donor car, you'll be fine - it's just when mixing and matching things can get a little confusing.
RE: Ph1 gti xsi question :) - powerandtorque - 10-01-2014
(10-01-2014, 01:24 PM)Ruan Wrote: Though I'd never trust the unlocking with turning on and unplugging - it's just likely to work for a few weeks, then one day lock itself again and leave you stranded.
Have there been numerous examples of this happening then and it being confirmed as an ECU re-locking itself?
I only ask because the soft-unlocking as I described above is the way 95%+ of 205/309 conversions are done and I've not personally heard of any re-locking themselves. There's an awful lot of converted cars around these days between GTi-6 and 2.0 Turbo swaps that have become common since the supply of usable with a costly rebuild Mi16's dried up a few years back.
RE: Ph1 gti xsi question :) - aggyj17 - 10-01-2014
I got a late ph1 xsi with keypad immobiliser and swapped the engine to an s16 which didn't have a immobiliser I just plugged it in and was fine.
Regarding the "soft unlocking" if you unlocked it by unplugging and put it into a ph1 the wires wouldn't be there for the ecu to send a signal to the transponder unit so it can't lock itself?
RE: Ph1 gti xsi question :) - underground375 - 10-01-2014
(10-01-2014, 02:20 PM)aggyj17 Wrote: I got a late ph1 xsi with keypad immobiliser and swapped the engine to an s16 which didn't have a immobiliser I just plugged it in and was fine.
Regarding the "soft unlocking" if you unlocked it by unplugging and put it into a ph1 the wires wouldn't be there for the ecu to send a signal to the transponder unit so it can't lock itself?
Can anyone confirm this?
RE: Ph1 gti xsi question :) - Ruan - 10-01-2014
(10-01-2014, 01:42 PM)powerandtorque Wrote:(10-01-2014, 01:24 PM)Ruan Wrote: Though I'd never trust the unlocking with turning on and unplugging - it's just likely to work for a few weeks, then one day lock itself again and leave you stranded.
Have there been numerous examples of this happening then and it being confirmed as an ECU re-locking itself?
I only ask because the soft-unlocking as I described above is the way 95%+ of 205/309 conversions are done and I've not personally heard of any re-locking themselves. There's an awful lot of converted cars around these days between GTi-6 and 2.0 Turbo swaps that have become common since the supply of usable with a costly rebuild Mi16's dried up a few years back.
Probably not in 205s - that's because there's no BSI to say to lock it, when you do it in a 306 you're more likely to, since it's the BSI is what tells the ECU to lock. You can do a soft unlock then snip the comms line in the ECU that's from the BSI - that'll stop any comms going on which may relock it.
Best way is to flash the immo chip in the back and totally unlock it - one day when I get time I'll figure it out and let people know how to do it, if it's anything like the 5p08 chips in the back of the single plug HDi ECUs, you just need to reflash the clip with an SOIC8 clip pretty much a 30 minute job.
RE: Ph1 gti xsi question :) - aggyj17 - 10-01-2014
Yea but all I am saying Ruan that in a ph1 there "shouldn't " be any communication wires so you wouldn't need to snip them like you would a ph 2/3?
RE: Ph1 gti xsi question :) - Ruan - 10-01-2014
Yeah there will be - it locks in the same way - it's just that the thing that activates it is different. Ph1 is the keypad, Ph2/3 is the transponder.
RE: Ph1 gti xsi question :) - miles - 10-01-2014
I have known around 3 to lock up in 205's for no reason, If you get a Ph1 GTi6 loom it will work as normal
RE: Ph1 gti xsi question :) - Sian - 15-01-2014
Ive got a key pad immobiliser on my p reg xsi and same on my s reg gti 6 . I have an unlocked ecu i use on the 6 occasionally just put in and i obv have no use of the immobilser.