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+--- Thread: Performance drop off (/showthread.php?tid=20222)
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Performance drop off - LewisG306 - 08-01-2014
Hi all ,
Took car out for a spin earlier , in search for a bit more power after the incident with the 11mm lol...
At first , it felt mega powerful and was spinning wheels up in 3rd quite easily etc , but then after a few runs , it started to die down a bit and didn't accelerate or feel as fast.. Is this just down to heat soak?
If so then I'll try and get a fmic asap?
I'm running 32psi on top mount and td04
RE: Performance drop off - underground375 - 08-01-2014
Td04 at 32psi? That is calling for a front mount !!!! All you will be sucking in is hot air!
RE: Performance drop off - Dum-Dum - 08-01-2014
Yeah that'll be heat soak.
A £1 bag of ice cubes on the TMIC will help short term.
RE: Performance drop off - Piggy - 08-01-2014
Scooby bonnet scoop and intercooler sprays...yeah maaaan!
RE: Performance drop off - padge - 08-01-2014
Lewis, fmic it mate, im doing mine next week, got everything to do it now, but really cba lol.
RE: Performance drop off - LewisG306 - 08-01-2014
Aye looks like I'm gonna need it then ehhh , better start getting all bits together asap
and might give that ice cube trick a go first though lolPadge be a babe and tell me your shopping list for intercooler ? Exact piping etc. etc ?
RE: Performance drop off - ste91 - 08-01-2014
Running the turbo at 32psi is completely stupid, it is way out of it's efficiency range, try turning it down by about 10 psi and your inlet temps will drop.
A FMIC will help, but you really need to turn that boost down. More boost does not always equal more power, in many cases you'd have ended up with a blown turbo by now, it's just that those turbos are fairly reliable and can take a bit of abuse.
RE: Performance drop off - padge - 08-01-2014
lewis, when ive routed mine up, ill show/tell you exactly whats needed so you can copy my deign
RE: Performance drop off - Dave - 08-01-2014
If that's a stock engine, I doubt it'll last too long running that kind of boost.
RE: Performance drop off - mikey b - 08-01-2014
As every one above has said need to get the temps down or the boost
RE: Performance drop off - LewisG306 - 08-01-2014
Been running that boost for about 10 months now , might turn boost down a bit until I get cooler tbh been thinking about doing it for a while
RE: Performance drop off - zx_volcane - 08-01-2014
(08-01-2014, 05:02 AM)Dave Wrote: If that's a stock engine, I doubt it'll last too long running that kind of boost.
surely boost doesn't mean a thing unless you put in the fuel to burn it - adding a few 10s of psi down the inlet isn't going to increase peak cylinder pressures significantly over what they are already, ie stupidly high.
iirc this has been running on a 9mm
sure, chuck in a 11mm and get too happy with the static advance and you're pushing your luck
RE: Performance drop off - ste91 - 08-01-2014
(08-01-2014, 03:43 PM)LewisG306 Wrote: Been running that boost for about 10 months now , might turn boost down a bit until I get cooler tbh been thinking about doing it for a while
Turn it down to around 22-23 psi and don't bother turning it back up once you've got a FMIC.
32 psi is way out of it's efficiency range and a FMIC will not make up for that.
RE: Performance drop off - Tom - 08-01-2014
f*ck efficiency, 30 psi is way more fun than 20!
RE: Performance drop off - ste91 - 08-01-2014
I bet you're barely making any more power at 32 than you are at 22.
RE: Performance drop off - LewisG306 - 08-01-2014
I've just turned it down anyway , it still pulls pretty well tbh , and for some reason I seem to have gained turbo stall ? Lmao
Obviously the 9mm was maxed out , and I've had to
Take it back on the max fuel screw and then wind in the idle screw at the back, for some reason though , it doesn't want to idle any more than about 800 which is obviously a bit low and It had just cut out wh em I went down the road. Anyone know how
I can bring the idle back up to a acceptable level?
RE: Performance drop off - padge - 08-01-2014
Ste, i ran my td04 at 20psi for months, wound it upto 40 and it was a toally different car, so muc more agressive, i couldnt beleive what a difference it made.
RE: Performance drop off - Dean - 09-01-2014
(08-01-2014, 04:43 PM)LewisG306 Wrote: I've just turned it down anyway , it still pulls pretty well tbh , and for some reason I seem to have gained turbo stall ? Lmao
Obviously the 9mm was maxed out , and I've had to
Take it back on the max fuel screw and then wind in the idle screw at the back, for some reason though , it doesn't want to idle any more than about 800 which is obviously a bit low and It had just cut out wh em I went down the road. Anyone know how
I can bring the idle back up to a acceptable level?
isn't 800rpm a normal hot idle? and cold is 1000 - 1100
Or I might be talking out of my arse.
but if it's the fuel screw you've turned down and it's dropped your idle, look for the cable that goes from the wax stat to the pump, there should be 2 screws behind the pump where the cable goes to.
And I think the passenger side screw is the hot idle.
RE: Performance drop off - adamm306 - 09-01-2014
when you've maxed the pump out though those screws do sweet f**k all and you have to start adjusting it by other means
RE: Performance drop off - LewisG306 - 09-01-2014
(09-01-2014, 10:03 AM)Dean Wrote:(08-01-2014, 04:43 PM)LewisG306 Wrote: I've just turned it down anyway , it still pulls pretty well tbh , and for some reason I seem to have gained turbo stall ? Lmao
Obviously the 9mm was maxed out , and I've had to
Take it back on the max fuel screw and then wind in the idle screw at the back, for some reason though , it doesn't want to idle any more than about 800 which is obviously a bit low and It had just cut out wh em I went down the road. Anyone know how
I can bring the idle back up to a acceptable level?
isn't 800rpm a normal hot idle? and cold is 1000 - 1100
Or I might be talking out of my arse.
but if it's the fuel screw you've turned down and it's dropped your idle, look for the cable that goes from the wax stat to the pump, there should be 2 screws behind the pump where the cable goes to.
And I think the passenger side screw is the hot idle.
I'm not sure , 800 just feels and sounds a bit low , even when it's low.
I have tried giving the passenger side of the two screws some adjustment but doesn't really do much lol
(09-01-2014, 10:08 AM)adamm306 Wrote: when you've maxed the pump out though those screws do sweet f**k all and you have to start adjusting it by other means
Yeah they don't do anything at all now , I did manage to wind the max fuel screw back enough for the hot idle (passenger side down the back of the pump) to start making a little bit of adjustment. With about 6-7 turns it probably made about 100 rpm difference but now it did drop the power off some.
I have got to say that it running at 32psi+ Is a lot better compared to lower pressures , it's just not consistent. I'm not sure how long inlet temps would stay down on around 20psi , it's really hard to say.
End of the day though, looks like I need a front mount lol
RE: Performance drop off - Mattcheese31 - 09-01-2014
(09-01-2014, 10:37 AM)LewisG306 Wrote:(09-01-2014, 10:03 AM)Dean Wrote:(08-01-2014, 04:43 PM)LewisG306 Wrote: I've just turned it down anyway , it still pulls pretty well tbh , and for some reason I seem to have gained turbo stall ? Lmao
Obviously the 9mm was maxed out , and I've had to
Take it back on the max fuel screw and then wind in the idle screw at the back, for some reason though , it doesn't want to idle any more than about 800 which is obviously a bit low and It had just cut out wh em I went down the road. Anyone know how
I can bring the idle back up to a acceptable level?
isn't 800rpm a normal hot idle? and cold is 1000 - 1100
Or I might be talking out of my arse.
but if it's the fuel screw you've turned down and it's dropped your idle, look for the cable that goes from the wax stat to the pump, there should be 2 screws behind the pump where the cable goes to.
And I think the passenger side screw is the hot idle.
I'm not sure , 800 just feels and sounds a bit low , even when it's low.
I have tried giving the passenger side of the two screws some adjustment but doesn't really do much lol
there's a lock nut and threaded grub to tighten the wax stat cable, might not be tight enough mate . .
RE: Performance drop off - jammapic - 09-01-2014
You tend to lose around 1.5% peak bhp and torque for every 5*c of extra inlet temp.
You can quickly lose a lot of power to heat soak....
RE: Performance drop off - LewisG306 - 09-01-2014
(09-01-2014, 10:45 AM)Mattcheese31 Wrote:(09-01-2014, 10:37 AM)LewisG306 Wrote:(09-01-2014, 10:03 AM)Dean Wrote: isn't 800rpm a normal hot idle? and cold is 1000 - 1100
Or I might be talking out of my arse.
but if it's the fuel screw you've turned down and it's dropped your idle, look for the cable that goes from the wax stat to the pump, there should be 2 screws behind the pump where the cable goes to.
And I think the passenger side screw is the hot idle.
I'm not sure , 800 just feels and sounds a bit low , even when it's low.
I have tried giving the passenger side of the two screws some adjustment but doesn't really do much lol
there's a lock nut and threaded grub to tighten the wax stat cable, might not be tight enough mate . .
Ahh right cheers
, I'll have to take another look in a bit(09-01-2014, 11:13 AM)jammapic Wrote: You tend to lose around 1.5% peak bhp and torque for every 5*c of extra inlet temp.
You can quickly lose a lot of power to heat soak....
Well I can definitely feel that power loss , it doesn't pull anywhere near as well after it's been given some hammer.
I think it's fair to say it must be getting hot in there anyway after seeing that the retainer for holding my nitrous injector onto the standard boost pipe from turbo outlet to cooler inlet had melted....
RE: Performance drop off - Chris_90 - 09-01-2014
Get that 11mm sorted and on and with a fmic should be epic!
*awaits thread there's a hole in my engine
*
RE: Performance drop off - Ruan - 10-01-2014
I'm so waiting for a massive nitrous backfire in the exhaust manifold.
RE: Performance drop off - Dave - 10-01-2014
I bet it's making more power at 32psi than its ever been doing at any other psi... But only briefly... If its just a de wastegates td04 it's good to make that kind of boost from such an old turbo, so the fuel must be getting in or it just wouldn't boost to that. 10 months is hellish good, I lasted 400 miles at 45psi. If its 9mm what has been done to the pump out of interest?
RE: Performance drop off - LewisG306 - 10-01-2014
(10-01-2014, 10:36 AM)Ruan Wrote: I'm so waiting for a massive nitrous backfire in the exhaust manifold.
Why would it backfire?
(10-01-2014, 11:49 AM)Dave Wrote: I bet it's making more power at 32psi than its ever been doing at any other psi... But only briefly... If its just a de wastegates td04 it's good to make that kind of boost from such an old turbo, so the fuel must be getting in or it just wouldn't boost to that. 10 months is hellish good, I lasted 400 miles at 45psi. If its 9mm what has been done to the pump out of interest?
Yeah it's de wastegated , and I know. Yep I've been running no less than 30psi for the past 10 months. I don't really boot it everywhere only give it some stick every once in a while... Always had regular oil changes using shell hx7 and sometimes run it on shell v power. Never ran it on veg.
The pump and turbo is Danny's old set up , I'm not sure exactly what has been done to it , I just bought it and had it put on...
I do know it as much as it revs over 5k and Danny has said it is gov'd and I've seen the lda and that had been ground too. The compensator screw is all the way out and the car is idling at about 1100 all the time with the max fuel screw as the only way to adjust rpm now.
We did also manage to knock the throttle arm back a spline aswell. But that is all I know.
Ruan, if you mean a backfire like this,
http://youtu.be/728U4X8smcs
then it will never happen with me because I don't plant my foot to the floor at stupidly low rpm and injecting nitrous...
RE: Performance drop off - ste91 - 10-01-2014
TD04's are much happier at around 23-24psi (you'll have to double check the compressor map yourself if you can be bothered to be 100% sure) but that should put you somewhere in one of the efficiency islands, whereas at 32psi you're probably off the map altogether, but going as low as 20 psi isn't really pushing the turbo.
What's happening at the moment is it feels fast for the first couple of pulls, but because it's just creating heat, the intercooler is getting heat soaked, once that happens you're losing power. A front mount wont help much either, it wont cool down fast enough to keep the temps down.
By keeping the boost at a sensible amount AND using a front mount, you'll make the best of both and keep the temps much more consistent.
RE: Performance drop off - Tom - 10-01-2014
(10-01-2014, 04:31 PM)ste91 Wrote: TD04's are much happier at around 23-24psi (you'll have to double check the compressor map yourself if you can be bothered to be 100% sure) but that should put you somewhere in one of the efficiency islands, whereas at 32psi you're probably off the map altogether, but going as low as 20 psi isn't really pushing the turbo.
What's happening at the moment is it feels fast for the first couple of pulls, but because it's just creating heat, the intercooler is getting heat soaked, once that happens you're losing power. A front mount wont help much either, it wont cool down fast enough to keep the temps down.
By keeping the boost at a sensible amount AND using a front mount, you'll make the best of both and keep the temps much more consistent.
Disagree, my td04 runs at around 30psi and my inlet temps stay at around 10degrees :/
RE: Performance drop off - Ruan - 10-01-2014
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9Z5Hd0yqvg
I mean like this!