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+--- Thread: 406 xud engine (/showthread.php?tid=20080)
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406 xud engine - tysonbully2k12 - 02-01-2014
So i have come across a 406 engine, its a a semi ecu controlled i think, as its got a wire going to the bosch pump, what i need to know is what do i need to change to get it to fit a 306 hdi.
Im guessing bosch pump, injectors??
Any help greatly appreciated. Thanks
RE: 406 xud engine - ally406 - 02-01-2014
It's 99% the same, the ECU on the 406 doesn't really do much, it can apply some injection advance (up to 20 degrees) based on information from the needle lift sensor on the injector, temperature sensor and crank position sensor. Likely you will want to swap the pump for a pure mechanical pump to make life easy, you can leave everything else as is I would think. The injector with the needle lift sensor will work fine without the sensor being plugged in.
RE: 406 xud engine - jammapic - 03-01-2014
I can vouch for this, it's what I ran in my old xud.
RE: 406 xud engine - tysonbully2k12 - 03-01-2014
(02-01-2014, 11:58 PM)ally406 Wrote: It's 99% the same, the ECU on the 406 doesn't really do much, it can apply some injection advance (up to 20 degrees) based on information from the needle lift sensor on the injector, temperature sensor and crank position sensor. Likely you will want to swap the pump for a pure mechanical pump to make life easy, you can leave everything else as is I would think. The injector with the needle lift sensor will work fine without the sensor being plugged in.
So all i will have to do is change the pump? Will it all still plug into the passenger side wiring socket thing? Its going in to a hdi.
(03-01-2014, 12:02 AM)jammapic Wrote: I can vouch for this, it's what I ran in my old xud.
Did you have to change anything else except the pump? And does it plug straight in?
RE: 406 xud engine - jammapic - 03-01-2014
Just the pump, runs great.
RE: 406 xud engine - Mal - 03-01-2014
Change the pump. Without the ecu they are horrendous to drive!
Mind the coolant pipework and mounting bolts too, as when I was changing a Xantia engine into a 406 I discovered they were different....
RE: 406 xud engine - Piggy - 03-01-2014
You will need ph2 dturbo clocks
RE: 406 xud engine - tysonbully2k12 - 03-01-2014
Will I have to change the in tank pump? Will it plug straight in to the passenger side chassis plug?
RE: 406 xud engine - Piggy - 03-01-2014
In tank pump needs to be a ph2 dturbo as well...its just a pick up and gauge sender.
And yes a xud loom will plug straight in...not 100% on 406 loom but 306 xud loom will!
RE: 406 xud engine - silverzx - 03-01-2014
From what I understand he wants to fit a 406 XUD Bosch pump to a 306 HDi effectively m-HDi'ing it.
RE: 406 xud engine - mr_fish - 03-01-2014
(03-01-2014, 03:15 PM)silverzx Wrote: From what I understand he wants to fit a 406 XUD Bosch pump to a 306 HDi effectively m-HDi'ing it.
M-TDi I believe
RE: 406 xud engine - silverzx - 03-01-2014
(03-01-2014, 03:55 PM)mr_fish Wrote:(03-01-2014, 03:15 PM)silverzx Wrote: From what I understand he wants to fit a 406 XUD Bosch pump to a 306 HDi effectively m-HDi'ing it.
M-TDi I believe
Whatever floats your boat.
RE: 406 xud engine - tysonbully2k12 - 03-01-2014
(03-01-2014, 03:07 PM)Piggy Wrote: In tank pump needs to be a ph2 dturbo as well...its just a pick up and gauge sender.
And yes a xud loom will plug straight in...not 100% on 406 loom but 306 xud loom will!
i was looking at the loom and the 306 loom has a big round plug and a medium round plug,
but the 406 has 2 big round ones, but it seems like one goes to the ecu in the engine bay on the 406.
so would you know what each plug runs on the 306? thanks for the help
RE: 406 xud engine - Piggy - 03-01-2014
No he aint talking about Mtdi...read his first post.
As to the loom, you wana get a 306 xud loom from a ph1 or 2...it will plug into your current plugs and run on the 406xud
RE: 406 xud engine - Tom - 03-01-2014
(03-01-2014, 06:02 PM)Piggy Wrote: No he aint talking about Mtdi...read his first post.
As to the loom, you wana get a 306 xud loom from a ph1 or 2...it will plug into your current plugs and run on the 406xud
Read it. Still agree with Silverxxxx
RE: 406 xud engine - tysonbully2k12 - 03-01-2014
(03-01-2014, 06:02 PM)Piggy Wrote: No he aint talking about Mtdi...read his first post.
As to the loom, you wana get a 306 xud loom from a ph1 or 2...it will plug into your current plugs and run on the 406xud
Will a hdi loom work? How much would a loom be? Thanks
RE: 406 xud engine - darrenjlobb - 03-01-2014
(02-01-2014, 11:58 PM)ally406 Wrote: It's 99% the same, the ECU on the 406 doesn't really do much, it can apply some injection advance (up to 20 degrees) based on information from the needle lift sensor on the injector, temperature sensor and crank position sensor. Likely you will want to swap the pump for a pure mechanical pump to make life easy, you can leave everything else as is I would think. The injector with the needle lift sensor will work fine without the sensor being plugged in.
(03-01-2014, 12:02 AM)jammapic Wrote: I can vouch for this, it's what I ran in my old xud.
Incorrect.
This pump relies 100% on the ecu for dynamic timing.
The pump will retain full IPP 100% of the time, and uses an electronic valve ot regulate presure to one side of the timing piston.
Without the ecu, you have fixed injection timing, fixed injection timing will run like utter poo.
RE: 406 xud engine - Piggy - 03-01-2014
(03-01-2014, 06:46 PM)tysonbully2k12 Wrote:(03-01-2014, 06:02 PM)Piggy Wrote: No he aint talking about Mtdi...read his first post.
As to the loom, you wana get a 306 xud loom from a ph1 or 2...it will plug into your current plugs and run on the 406xud
Will a hdi loom work? How much would a loom be? Thanks
No.
Free if someone is kind enough on here to donate it
RE: 406 xud engine - tysonbully2k12 - 03-01-2014
(03-01-2014, 07:10 PM)Piggy Wrote:(03-01-2014, 06:46 PM)tysonbully2k12 Wrote:(03-01-2014, 06:02 PM)Piggy Wrote: No he aint talking about Mtdi...read his first post.
As to the loom, you wana get a 306 xud loom from a ph1 or 2...it will plug into your current plugs and run on the 406xud
Will a hdi loom work? How much would a loom be? Thanks
No.
Free if someone is kind enough on here to donate it
No one will want to post to Ireland for free :-D how much would you pay it? :-) would the in tank pump out of the 406 work or would i have to get that too?
RE: 406 xud engine - Piggy - 03-01-2014
From a ph2 xud turbo you need:
Engine loom
Clocks
In tank pick up
RE: 406 xud engine - tysonbully2k12 - 03-01-2014
(03-01-2014, 10:33 PM)Piggy Wrote: From a ph2 xud turbo you need:
Engine loom
Clocks
In tank pick up
Thanks a mill :-D going to scrap yard tomorow to get a price on bosch pump, engine loom, would my clocks not work?
Also would my fuel lines be the same? Thanks
RE: 406 xud engine - tysonbully2k12 - 03-01-2014
Another thing :-D the engine is same as this, it doesnt have a top mount intercooler but has what seems to be xantia manifold, should it have a intercooler? alot of questions :-D
http://www.ncscarspares.co.uk/peugeot-406-citroen-xantia-turbo-diesel-engine-205-p.asp
RE: 406 xud engine - Piggy - 03-01-2014
Some had little intercoolers...
Be ok for now but worth getting a second hand intercooler from a jag or mondeo etc as a FMIC
And no your hdi clocks wont work
Fuel lines be fine...but a primer grenade and bit of pipe maybe needed.
You probably would want a xud 306 throttle cable too or modify your existing one
RE: 406 xud engine - tysonbully2k12 - 04-01-2014
(03-01-2014, 11:47 PM)Piggy Wrote: Some had little intercoolers...
Be ok for now but worth getting a second hand intercooler from a jag or mondeo etc as a FMIC
And no your hdi clocks wont work
Fuel lines be fine...but a primer grenade and bit of pipe maybe needed.
You probably would want a xud 306 throttle cable too or modify your existing one
I dont think it ever had one, but not sure. i have the pipes of the engine but i cut the ones of the car, and have the grenade. ill modify my hdi one. trying to keep it cheap :-D
RE: 406 xud engine - padge - 04-01-2014
I had hdi clocks in my ph2 xud.
RE: 406 xud engine - ally406 - 04-01-2014
(03-01-2014, 06:50 PM)darrenjlobb Wrote:(02-01-2014, 11:58 PM)ally406 Wrote: It's 99% the same, the ECU on the 406 doesn't really do much, it can apply some injection advance (up to 20 degrees) based on information from the needle lift sensor on the injector, temperature sensor and crank position sensor. Likely you will want to swap the pump for a pure mechanical pump to make life easy, you can leave everything else as is I would think. The injector with the needle lift sensor will work fine without the sensor being plugged in.
(03-01-2014, 12:02 AM)jammapic Wrote: I can vouch for this, it's what I ran in my old xud.
Incorrect.
This pump relies 100% on the ecu for dynamic timing.
The pump will retain full IPP 100% of the time, and uses an electronic valve ot regulate presure to one side of the timing piston.
Without the ecu, you have fixed injection timing, fixed injection timing will run like utter poo.
I think we are arguing the same point? What we have said is do away with the AS3 and fit a full mechanical pump, and get rid of the ECU? Without the ECU, the AS3 pump defaults to 20 degrees advance, resulting in bag of spanners like running.
RE: 406 xud engine - tysonbully2k12 - 04-01-2014
So went to scrap yard today and he has everything bar what I want, found a old citroen but had wrong engine, so hunting around everywhere for a pump and loom.
RE: 406 xud engine - jammapic - 04-01-2014
I meant I used this engine with a standard pump on it... Works fine.
RE: 406 xud engine - Mal - 05-01-2014
Careful with the in tank pump there's 2 types on XUD 406's. One has a plastic ring, the other has a metal ring
RE: 406 xud engine - tysonbully2k12 - 06-01-2014
Will a berlingo lucas pump fit the 406 engine?