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+--- Thread: coilovers (/showthread.php?tid=19837)
coilovers - wibbz - 23-12-2013
evening all i have been looking into getting some coilovers or my 6 and came across there on the pug1off web site http://peugeot-tuning-parts.co.uk/306-xsara-prosport-coilover-suspension-kit.html i know they are cheap but just wondering what you guys think about them many thanks wibbz
RE: coilovers - underground375 - 23-12-2013
Very cheap, but good to see some reviews
RE: coilovers - Curt - 23-12-2013
They're just cheap, generic coilovers. You get what you pay for is usually the case, it also counts here. They serve the purpose of being a cheap way to get your ride height the way you want it... Don't expect much and they'll be fine. They do seem to come with different rated springs, some say they're far too soft, others they're too hard. I had some TA Technix for a while and they were fine for what they are.
However if you're after handling, spend more and get some better ones. If you're after handling and comfort, look into shocks and springs. It really depends what you want.
Have a look around, there's plenty of info around on them and all the other options.
RE: coilovers - budd - 24-12-2013
completely agree with the above, cheap and cheerful I don't know how they are able to do it for the money although I'd guess it involves slave labour in a Chinese shanty town, be hay ho
As stated don't expect to much and you'll be fine with them as they are, for sure there are better quality items available but this will always involve more expense, cheap coilovers are a cheap but ultimately compromised solution simple as that.
Although I'm pretty sure they can be improved dramatically, the trouble with these from a performance point of view is they at first feel very stiff with little or no apparent compliance but the first pot hole or speed bump you hit they bottom out, I suggest this is because they are under sprung and over damped so the first thing to do is ditch the supplied springs and get a pair of longer free length appropriately rated coil springs, the supplied springs seem to have random spring rates I even heard of the supplied springs differing between struts, the helper springs are so soft they are little more than spacers and are only there to stop the main spring unseating on full rebound.
I'm currently trying to choose a suitable spring for my own 'cheap' coilies, springs can be made to virtually any free length and rate so choosing the most appropriate is a bit of a challenge, whether there is a formula or equation out they that can be used to get the spring spec in the right ball park I don't know I've certainly not found one and believe me I've looked, I'm lucky in that I've got a pal who rallies and as a fair few spare coil springs of differing lengths and rates so the plan is in the new year to rumage through these and see if I can find something that works, I'm thinking a spring rate of around 300-325lbs and free length in the region of 10" should be something like but a bit of trail and error should bring the improvement I'm looking for.
The issue with the over damping is more difficult to address, as I'm not sure what the cause is, by that I mean I don't know whether the the inserts are built with excess damping or it's more to do with stiction (internal friction) caused by cheap, oil, seals and inconsistent quality control, either way the only way to address the issue is to open up the insert and tinker with the internals, this shouldn't be as difficult as it sounds,think motorcycle fork tuning back in the day when bike forks were un-adjustable, changing the viscosity and volume of the hydraulic oil was the only way change the damping characteristics, I don't see why the same process wouldn't work on the coilover insets OK it's trial and error again but I quite enjoy the tinkering and even when it's not a total success you always tend to learn something in the process.
RE: coilovers - Craigus - 24-12-2013
TA technix go lower
RE: coilovers - sam - 24-12-2013
All im going to say is "buy cheap, buy twice"
RE: coilovers - Rippthrough - 24-12-2013
Budd, the issue is the internal friction, they have shitloads, which is why they feel stiff and then bottom out the minute they hit a pothole - it takes a lot to get them moving but then the damping control is shite and it just blows through the travel. If you run the stiffer springs (I think we went through this on .net a while back with the right spring rates), and then go stiffer on the valving you might sorta make them WORK
edit: epic typo!
RE: coilovers - Piggy - 24-12-2013
Bilsteins and Eibachs /thread
RE: coilovers - Pompey306mark - 24-12-2013
Gaz coilovers.
RE: coilovers - Eeyore - 24-12-2013
just bought some avo gtzs. Ill let you know how they are when ive fitted them.
RE: coilovers - chrisrallye - 25-12-2013
Pug1off do k-sports as well that r a very good coilover
RE: coilovers - sam - 25-12-2013
(24-12-2013, 04:10 PM)SRowell Wrote: just bought some avo gtzs. Ill let you know how they are when ive fitted them.
Can already tell you that there awsome
had mine a couple of months now and havent got any bad issues with them
RE: coilovers - Eeyore - 25-12-2013
(25-12-2013, 09:19 AM)sam Wrote:(24-12-2013, 04:10 PM)SRowell Wrote: just bought some avo gtzs. Ill let you know how they are when ive fitted them.
Can already tell you that there awsome
Awesome. I was worried I had spent a lot of money on the wrong ones!
RE: coilovers - sam - 25-12-2013
There brilliant 100x better than the gaz and the D2's I had
RE: coilovers - budd - 25-12-2013
(24-12-2013, 03:12 PM)Rippthrough Wrote: Budd, the issue is the internal friction, they have shitloads, which is why they feel stiff and then bottom out the minute they hit a pothole - it takes a lot to get them moving but then the damping control is shite and it just blows through the travel. If you run the stiffer springs (I think we went through this on .net a while back with the right spring rates), and then go stiffer on the valving you might sorta make them worse.
agreed, and we have discussed this before
in the end if you can afford better quality then that's the best why to go if not then be prepared to put up with the short comings of these cheap items, at the end of the day the majority of punters buying these are simply looking for 'the stance' ie getting it as low as possible in which case performance is largely irrelevant. I'm still hopeful I can engineer some performance into mine,as I said before getting the spring rate something like as got to be the first port of call in improving things, when I have a spring rate that is more suitable I can look at damping, I haven't opened one of these cheapies up yet, but I will do if simply changing the spring rate doesn't yield the results I'm after. Dampers are pretty simple in principle, oil goes back and forth through holes varying the viscosity of the oil and size of holes ultimately determines the performance envelope, OK there's a bit more to it, shim stacks, oil volume etc but basically it's oil through holes, I may be I'm pissing in the wind but at least keeps me off the streets, well it does till I get them sorted
RE: coilovers - Rippthrough - 25-12-2013
See edit to my typo, should have been 'work' not 'worse'
RE: coilovers - budd - 25-12-2013
(25-12-2013, 08:17 PM)Rippthrough Wrote: See edit to my typo, should have been 'work' not 'worse'
no need for clarification I understood your point
, and I'm not even sure it's possible to 're tune' these dampers, but if re springing doesn't give me what I need then I'll tear one apart and have a look at the internals, the only good thing in the whole process is that they aren't expensive to start with so it's not a big deal to chop them about a bit.
RE: coilovers - welshpug - 25-12-2013
avo's are crap, they love blowing seals, only upside is they have reasonable turnaround service!
gaz love going rusty and seem to have a big fanboy base, even though those that have used proper suspension don't rate them.
best bet if you really want height adjustable coilovers but cant afford proper ones is some billies or konis and weld some adjustable spring collars to them, otherwise stick to koni or billies and a good lowering spring like eibach.
RE: coilovers - Seid' - 25-12-2013
I have v-maxx coils on my 306 almost 3 years on the max down (without helpers) and its a daily car.. so far they are awesome and like new! the shaft (?) still continues to have enough strength.
RE: coilovers - ConorTRG - 27-12-2013
Those are pro sports, decent coilover for the money if your on a budget. But those arent specifically for a 306. Pro sport havent supplied a kit for a 306 for a very long time. Those are for a 206. The front coilovers are will fit the 306, the wee T piece is at the right height for a 306, the rear shocks are a bit longer than a 306 and also the steel centre of the bushes need shortened to fit a 306. TA technix are the only company making coilovers specific for a 306.
Also budd theres nothing you can do with the internals of budget coilovers. They all have a sealed shock insert inside the coilover body unlike the better brands which you can take apart to see all the different parts in them.
Also bc racing do a coilover for a 306, and they are very good. Pretty expensive though.
RE: coilovers - budd - 28-12-2013
(27-12-2013, 09:26 PM)ConorTRG Wrote: Also budd theres nothing you can do with the internals of budget coilovers. They all have a sealed shock insert inside the coilover body unlike the better brands which you can take apart to see all the different parts in them.
thanks for the info, looks like I won't be tinkering with the damping then, although I wander if it possible to swap the inserts? I have a pr of Koni adj with damaged strut bodies but good internals, if the damper rods are the same diameter I may be able to combine the two.
RE: coilovers - ConorTRG - 28-12-2013
Yea you can swap over the inserts in them once you find one the right length etc.
RE: coilovers - budd - 28-12-2013
(28-12-2013, 03:58 PM)ConorTRG Wrote: Yea you can swap over the inserts in them once you find one the right length etc.
sounds worth investigating, I'm going to have to remove the strut/hub to change the rear engine mount so I'll have a look then see if replacing the insert is feasible ,
RE: coilovers - ConorTRG - 28-12-2013
If you do split the coilover make sure and use loctite on the threads of the collar that holds the insert in place.
RE: coilovers - budd - 02-01-2014
yes I'll thread lock the retainer