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Asbestos in cars - Niall - 13-08-2013
Im going to be writing a few little guides over the next few weeks on safely working on our cars. We all like to modify them and work on them our selves but rarely do we take safety into account partly due to laziness but also due to just not knowing the sort of risks we are subjecting our selves to! Ive written this guide since Puggy306 expressed a concern in the use of asbestos in brake linings. All the information below has been taken from my course notes from a recent asbestos course i was put on at work as its something i come across daily. The course was written as a joint venture by Safesite and HSE so its about as factual as it gets!
History of asbestos
Asbestos has been used for centuries dating back to the egyptians using it to wrap pharaohs! Since, it has been used for all sorts but the use of it that mainly affects us goes back to the early 80s where its use peaked despite the first health concerns being aired by the americans in the 1960s. In 1983, licensing regulations where issued by the government and in 1985, several bans were put in place on certain types of asbestos although there is still plenty of it out there!
What is asbestos?
Asbestos is a very very versatile material. It is naturally occurring minerals that are contained within rock and mined in several countries including India, Russia, Canada and a few more. It is found even today in every day life as in its peak, it was used for all sorts including over 3000 building materials ranging from heating insulation to vinyl flooring to fire guarding. It comes in several forms. Crocidolite (blue asbestos), Amosite (brown asbestos) and Chrysotile (White asbestos) (note: Although it doesnt really apply to us with cars, the colour of asbestos is not a sure way to identify it!)
Why is it dangerous to me?
Asbestos is made up of loads of tiny fibres, microns in size. They are virtually indistrutable. They are resistant to heat, chemicals, do not evaporate and will not break down. Due to there size, when the matrial is broken up, you end up with loads of these tiny fibres floating in the air which you will inhale. Over the course of time, most of the fibres will be expelled from your body however due to there shape (sort of a hook shape), some will stick inside your lungs causing scarring and inflamation. This will eventually lead to some form of disease (generally asbestosis but it can also cause lung cancer and Mesothelioma). Generally the signs take between 15 and 60 years to show up but once they do, its far too late! If your a smoker, your also at a much higher risk of contracting one of these diseases.
Due to the properties of the fibres, there is no way to remove them from your lungs once they are stuck. You may be lucky and get a lung transplant but asbestosis is basically a terminal disease and is a very painful way to go!
So how does this affect me?
Well being a car forum, i am aiming this at cars but since doing the course, its certainly opened my eyes to how its still used today all around us. In cars, it was used for heat insulation and brake linings. I can tell you now that no 306 uses any sort of asbestos in any heat protected surfaces like manifold heat shields etc. Genuine brake linings do not use asbestos but asbestos is still used in brand new brake linings today!
How can i tell if my old brakes are part asbestos?
Simple answer. You can't! Not without a proper test done by a proper asbestos testing company which trust me, is bloody expensive and pointless! The biggest thing to remember is that it is completely safe when its in one piece! As soon as you start breaking up the lining, you could be disturbing and releasing fibres into the air.
What do i do then?
All the bigger friction material companies make a point of not using asbestos in their brake linings however a good rule of thumb is to assume its there. Remove old pads/shoes in one piece and place into a sealed bag (rubble bags from a builders merchant are ideal but i understand most will not have these). Old pads/linings should be sealed in a bag then taken to your local tip where they will have a proper place for asbestos disposal. (although will that really happen?
)What do i do if i do break up my old pads/discs?
Well really when working on brakes, you should be wearing a dust mask and gloves. If not, get away and get a mask on asap! Any mask should help but officially, you want a FFP3 rated mask to ensure you are fully protected. The easiest way to "reseal' the brake linings is funnily enough to paint it in wall paper paste. Do this, stick it in a bag and go and have a shower!
The idea of this guide is not to try and scare you from working on your car but to help you. The chances of coming across asbestos in a car, even as old as ours is very slim but its always best to be safe with these things!
RE: Asbestos in cars - adamm306 - 13-08-2013
Good guide this mate thanks
RE: Asbestos in cars - 306Puggy - 13-08-2013
Heh, even reading this guide makes me cough! No really, reading this thread has made my cough come back. God knows how many of us have actually been exposed to asbestos anyway. When I was at uni I walked past an old terraced house being cleared out, stuff just getting chucked onto a skip in the open friggin' air with particles going everywhere when people were walking past. Don't know whether it was asbestos or not but it was certainly an old house which might have had it as insulation and they weren't proper builders either. In terms of cars apparently asbestos is still used in clutches so don't prod/poke the clutch material.
I think asbestos would be rare in brake components simply because they create dust when they are used and you can't have cars/bikes letting off clouds of asbestos every time they brake! Yes, drum brakes are encased in drums but still the mechanic's union wouldn't be happy about having asbestos in brake shoe linings because every time the drums have to get pulled off it would release clouds of the stuff from dust that has built up inside.
RE: Asbestos in cars - Niall - 13-08-2013
Hence why you should be wearing a FFP3 rated mask when working on brakes anyway but most dont. I normally don't! The chances of getting asbestosis by any of us occasionally changing our pads and shoes is highly unlikely. Doing it as a daily job however is a different thing!
Re: Asbestos in cars - Seb_Ryan - 13-08-2013
Tbh these days you shouldnt find any asbestos about...unless its a 90's car with original pads/clutch..
Suprising how many houses still have it in, in our old flat in the attic we had a few sheets of asbestos/concrere boards in the attic.. normally around the chimney breast/concrete walls.. its fine until it breaks
RE: Asbestos in cars - Niall - 13-08-2013
Seb Asbestos is actually still used today in modern production however its much much safer and shouldnt ever cause us an issue.
In the 80s, it was used literally everywhere because it is a fantastic material! It was even used to make toilet cisterns so if you have one of them old "plastic" ones, dont smash it!
RE: Asbestos in cars - cully - 13-08-2013
esbestos was used in building materials up to 2000
most artex cielings contain asbestos particals
the list is endless what it was used in
from irons to toilet seats widow sills and on and on
Re: Asbestos in cars - Seb_Ryan - 13-08-2013
Yeah, saying that think there is a kind of it in the flat we just moved into in the artex.. luckily was well ventilated and only some of it got steamed off lol
And I was meaning in cars.. its not the same as the old stuff as you said
RE: Asbestos in cars - Rich306 - 13-08-2013
(13-08-2013, 09:13 AM)Niall Wrote: Hence why you should be wearing a FFP3 rated mask when working on brakes anyway but most dont. I normally don't! The chances of getting asbestosis by any of us occasionally changing our pads and shoes is highly unlikely. Doing it as a daily job however is a different thing!
I was questioning the 'point' of this thread and now it's been confirmed, The chances on getting a condition from working on our cars 'every now and then' are very very slim.
As you have stated; daily job is where the risks truly come in.
You have to be inhaling the 0.6cubic cm's for 10 minutes (from memory) before the effects begin to cause a damaging effect. The chances of that whilst working on our cars are slim. So aside from a good topic, I wouldn't say there's any rush to go buying masks...
RE: Asbestos in cars - Grant - 13-08-2013
(13-08-2013, 11:47 AM)Rich306 Wrote: I was questioning the 'point' of this thread and now it's been confirmed, The chances on getting a condition from working on our cars 'every now and then' are very very slim.
As you have stated; daily job is where the risks truly come in.
You have to be inhaling the 0.6cubic cm's for 10 minutes (from memory) before the effects begin to cause a damaging effect. The chances of that whilst working on our cars are slim. So aside from a good topic, I wouldn't say there's any rush to go buying masks...
It has a damaging effect from the moment you breathe it in. Its just the amount of it you need to breathe in for a noticeable effect to take hold. Why do you think so many people have developed asbestosis many years after retirement? Your body will identify the asbestos and begin to cover it in protein to 'block it'. Once started this process never stops. So you think, you breathe in asbestos at the age of 21, what is it going to be like when you are 71?
Not something to be taken lightly IMO. You only get one shot at life.
Good write up Niall.
Rep.
RE: Asbestos in cars - Rich306 - 13-08-2013
(13-08-2013, 11:52 AM)Grant Wrote:(13-08-2013, 11:47 AM)Rich306 Wrote: I was questioning the 'point' of this thread and now it's been confirmed, The chances on getting a condition from working on our cars 'every now and then' are very very slim.
As you have stated; daily job is where the risks truly come in.
You have to be inhaling the 0.6cubic cm's for 10 minutes (from memory) before the effects begin to cause a damaging effect. The chances of that whilst working on our cars are slim. So aside from a good topic, I wouldn't say there's any rush to go buying masks...
It has a damaging effect from the moment you breathe it in. Its just the amount of it you need to breathe in for a noticeable effect to take hold. Why do you think so many people have developed asbestosis many years after retirement? Your body will identify the asbestos and begin to cover it in protein to 'block it'. Once started this process never stops. So you think, you breathe in asbestos at the age of 21, what is it going to be like when you are 71?
Not something to be taken lightly IMO. You only get one shot at life.
Good write up Niall.
Rep.
IMO death is a natural factor of life, we can't be wrapping ourselves up in cotton wool against everything; man made or natural!
It's nice to prevent a lot of things sure...
If I die today or tomorrow; shit happens!
RE: Asbestos in cars - Niall - 13-08-2013
(13-08-2013, 11:47 AM)Rich306 Wrote: You have to be inhaling the 0.6cubic cm's for 10 minutes (from memory) before the effects begin to cause a damaging effect. The chances of that whilst working on our cars are slim. So aside from a good topic, I wouldn't say there's any rush to go buying masks...
Rich im not sure where you got them figures from because the quantities of asbestos in a product are measured in f/ml and also, it affects everyone differently as i said above when i made the smoking point. If your lungs were much smaller than mine (probably bearing in mind im about 14ft taller than the average man) then they will have less of a capacity than mine meaning if we were both exposed to the same amount for the same period of time, the chances are you will suffer before i will!
RE: Asbestos in cars - Niall - 13-08-2013
(13-08-2013, 01:42 PM)Rich306 Wrote: IMO death is a natural factor of life, we can't be wrapping ourselves up in cotton wool against everything; man made or natural!
It's nice to prevent a lot of things sure...
If I die today or tomorrow; shit happens!
Completely agreed but id rather ensure when i die, its as painless as possible. Ive seen the results of asbestosis and its painful to watch let alone imagining what it must be like to be suffering with it. For a few seconds extra on your job, surely its worth taking the precautions so that your minimising the risk of becoming ill!
RE: Asbestos in cars - Dum-Dum - 13-08-2013
Nice guide Neil, I didn't realise it was still in brake pads/linings, Think ill mask up next time I change some if i don't know if they are OEM or a proprietary brand. Current ones are gen pug so will be alright.
RE: Asbestos in cars - Rich306 - 13-08-2013
(13-08-2013, 01:45 PM)Niall Wrote:(13-08-2013, 01:42 PM)Rich306 Wrote: IMO death is a natural factor of life, we can't be wrapping ourselves up in cotton wool against everything; man made or natural!
It's nice to prevent a lot of things sure...
If I die today or tomorrow; shit happens!
Completely agreed but id rather ensure when i die, its as painless as possible. Ive seen the results of asbestosis and its painful to watch let alone imagining what it must be like to be suffering with it. For a few seconds extra on your job, surely its worth taking the precautions so that your minimising the risk of becoming ill!
Fair play
And my figures were from memory lol, which doesn't serve me well!