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+--- Thread: DVLA fine, is it worth fighting. (/showthread.php?tid=16206)
DVLA fine, is it worth fighting. - Dum-Dum - 05-08-2013
Hi all, got a DVLA fine through the post a couple of weeks ago for not taxing poodles car the month after I bought it. I'm not paying their £40 pay early discount, I'm not paying the apparent "owed" tax and I'm certainly not paying the full £80.
I replied to them telling them it was scrapped just after I bought it so i wouldn't of had to pay tax and the scrap man is responsible for sorting the certificate of destruction (which obviously i never received).
They have written back to me telling me that because i did not receive written notification from them within 20 working days i should of contacted them to tell them i wasn't the reg keeper and so the fine still stands.
I am of the opinion that it is the scrap mans job to deal with the V5 as he took it as the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 section 22 say:
The Secretary of State may by regulations—
(d)require a person by, through or to whom any vehicle is sold or disposed of to furnish the particulars prescribed by the regulations in the manner so prescribed,
(dd)require a person by or through whom any vehicle is sold or disposed of to furnish the person to whom it is sold or disposed of with such document relating to the vehicle’s registration as may be prescribed by the regulations, and to do so at such time as may be so prescribed.
As the legislation says OR it doesn't make it me responsibility as the scrapper was going to especially as I "furnished" the scrapper with the documents
The whole legislation of Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 is here:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1994/22/section/22
The other point is I am not paying tax for a car that does not and did not exist. My opinion is that "innocent until proven guilty" so they must prove that the car did and does still exist as a vehicle to which road tax would apply. They must also prove that I did not give the vehicle (shell) and V5 to a scrapper.
Finally there is some talk on the internet that the DVLA cannot issue you a fine till you have been found guilty in court and the £80 "fine" is actually an invitation to an out of court settlement.
If I do go to court do you think using thousands of whinges about the DVLA sending out fines to people who have done what they are supposed to and me always having scrapped cars correctly previously would be a good argument (along with the above)
Sorry that rambles a bit but I f*cking hate the DVLA and I want them to have as little of my money as possible.
RE: DVLA fine, is it worth fighting. - Scott - 05-08-2013
I'm in the exact same situation right now after my insurer didn't declare my written off 406 (in April 2012) as scrapped! Takes the piss.
RE: DVLA fine, is it worth fighting. - Dum-Dum - 05-08-2013
Scott, this goes into lawyer law (as opposed to real law thats largely common sense) so your probably alot better with it than I am. What are you doing with it.
I've read one bloke went to court and ended up eventually paying the £80 fine and about £30 in costs and was of the opinion that the court was on the DVLA's side.
I've also just realised that I wrote "innocent until proven guilty" in my first post and that this is probably civil law so would be "balance of probablilities" but even so id like to argue that my car doesn't exist and that chances are the DVLA have f*cked up
RE: DVLA fine, is it worth fighting. - Dodgy Bob - 05-08-2013
I had this over a lost logbook from my first 306 and got done for "failing to notify of change of keeper". Unfortunately from a legal perspective the DVLA are and always have been a law unto themselves, you can appeal any fine or decision they make, but they hear their own appeals so no-one ever wins, and there is no independent body appeals can be referred to for a fair decision like with parking tickets. There is also no regulatorory body to check up on the DVLA or to ensure they treat people fairly like for example the financial ombudsman. They are the be all and end all of licensing and registration and they never allow their judgment to be challenged or questioned, more often than not they don't even read appeals, just send out a generic refusals letter and rub their hands together knowing they are now going to get even more money out of you.
And no such thing as innocent till proven guilt with them either. They always kop out and explain away their failures by saying the onus is on you to follow up with them if you receive no confirmation letter etc. Like we all have nothing better to do than chase around after a incompetent government funded organisation who already ra*e us for £££
RE: DVLA fine, is it worth fighting. - Dum-Dum - 05-08-2013
Yeah this is the problem, they only deal with complaints and appeals in house so the standard response is that they are right.
RE: DVLA fine, is it worth fighting. - Toms306 - 05-08-2013
Is it worth the hassle for £40?
It is up to you to make sure it's scrapped properly if you're the registered keeper so I can't see them letting you off tbh.
I always make sure I've got the destruction cert within a week for that reason tbh. Good luck whatever you decide to do though!
RE: DVLA fine, is it worth fighting. - r3k1355 - 05-08-2013
Sounds like the DVLA lost the paperwork, or the scrap man didn't sort it all out.
Something like this was sorted out in the courts recently.
The DVLA can't compel (force) you to contact them to check paperwork has gone through and stuff.
Basically they're responsible for their own poor paperwork standards.
If you make the case that the fault is theirs and they had lost/mis-placed the paperwork they'll back down because they know precedent has been set in court and they don't have a hope in hell of winning the case.
Have a google around and you'll find out all the particulars you need, I think quoting the case name in a letter usually makes them back down.
RE: DVLA fine, is it worth fighting. - Dodgy Bob - 05-08-2013
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/appeal_of_continuous_registratio
A bit of reading, and their response mainly being we could tell you, but we're not going to so here, read some laws that we use to reinforce our cases against the common man whilst making sure he can't and never will be able to beat us! Total tosspots the lot of em!
RE: DVLA fine, is it worth fighting. - Dodgy Bob - 05-08-2013
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/167425/response/411556/attach/2/FOIR3503%20Thomas%20Johnson.pdf
Another link. Not directly related to your predicament Dum-Dum but a prime example for how the DVLA always wins over 99% of the time should you take it to court. Like I said a law unto themselves.
RE: DVLA fine, is it worth fighting. - Norledge - 05-08-2013
Not worth fighting it, trust me I've tried.
Pay the £40, or do what I did and move!
RE: DVLA fine, is it worth fighting. - 1616six - 05-08-2013
I paid the £40 on my old rover 200 a few years back. not worth the hassle.
RE: DVLA fine, is it worth fighting. - Scott - 05-08-2013
Having spoken to the insurer and given them shit, I'm just going to have to suck it up and pay tbh, I can see it being a shit load of hassle.
RE: DVLA fine, is it worth fighting. - Niall - 05-08-2013
(05-08-2013, 04:11 PM)Scott Wrote: Having spoken to the insurer and given them shit, I'm just going to have to suck it up and pay tbh, I can see it being a shit load of hassle.
Pay it then bill the insurance company! Its due to their f*ck up so they can refund you the money!
RE: DVLA fine, is it worth fighting. - Poodle - 06-08-2013
Chris, sorry to say it, but you've left this way too late. Might have gotten away with it if you'd got on it earlier - i did when i scrapped the cabby, but that was within 2 weeks of scrapping the car and she was sorn before that (i don't think you sorn'd the hdi did you..?). Could try it anyway and see, never know your luck.
I called them and explained the issue and asked what i could do to convince them the car was no longer in my possession and hadn't been for a while, the lady just said to send a letter repeating what i'd said to her with the remaining part of the v5, gave me her name to use as a reference, etc. Three weeks later they sent me a letter of confirmation back and that was that.
RE: DVLA fine, is it worth fighting. - cwspellowe - 06-08-2013
Thing is, the DVLA say you are supposed to notify them of any change of details or status of the car ie. scrapped. If, for instance, you were to post away the V5 with the tax disc and a declaration of the vehicle being scrapped, it's not your responsibility to chase up the DVLA to make sure it has been done. In fact you would have served your side of the bargain by sending the paperwork away, fulfilling your statutory obligations.
I'm still facing this issue with them over the old GTi, i even have a photo trail of the guys turning up, cutting up the car and loading it onto a flatbed. Yet for some reason they still seem to think i'm liable for 12 months' tax on it when the car was quite blatantly in a million pieces on the back of a van.
RE: DVLA fine, is it worth fighting. - Dum-Dum - 06-08-2013
So annoyed, one of my points about not paying tax on something that is no longer a car is pointless. The legislation actually says it still applies to anything that is or used to be a mechanically propelled vehicle.
RE: DVLA fine, is it worth fighting. - Face. - 06-08-2013
long story short, ignore all letters from the DVLA they will soon stop sending them.DO NOT MAKE ANY FORM OF CONTACT.
This has worked for me and lots of other people
RE: DVLA fine, is it worth fighting. - Poodle - 07-08-2013
I didn't think you'd informed them though?
RE: DVLA fine, is it worth fighting. - silverzx - 07-08-2013
(06-08-2013, 08:17 PM)Face. Wrote: long story short, ignore all letters from the DVLA they will soon stop sending them.DO NOT MAKE ANY FORM OF CONTACT.
This has worked for me and lots of other people
Ignorance is bliss I guess?
RE: DVLA fine, is it worth fighting. - cwspellowe - 07-08-2013
(06-08-2013, 08:17 PM)Face. Wrote: long story short, ignore all letters from the DVLA they will soon stop sending them.DO NOT MAKE ANY FORM OF CONTACT.
This has worked for me and lots of other people
TBF.. if you move house, then what could they do?