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+--- Thread: Jacking up front of car in one go on subframe-dangerous? (/showthread.php?tid=15267)
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Jacking up front of car in one go on subframe-dangerous? - 306Puggy - 05-07-2013
Tomorrow I have to change a driveshaft for MOT. Since the recent discussion apparently the loops on the chassis are not suitable to place axle stands underneath which is what I have been doing up until now (and jacking it up from the sill). Since I can't get my jack underneath the loop to jack it up and then place the axle stands under the sill, I was thinking of jacking the car up underneath the subframe but since the engine mounts weren't designed to have force exerted on them in an upwards direction I am very wary of doing it this way especially in one go. Also I don't know if my jack will reach far enough, I think it will only reach as far as the sump anyway!
RE: Jacking up front of car in one go on subframe-dangerous? - Piggy - 05-07-2013
if you do use sills for the axle stands, then jack on the subframe, not the engine mount!!
jack on the sill and use the subframe for the axle stands, which is what I do
PS maybe need to explain what you mean a bit more...one second you say about jacking on subframe then concern over jacking on engine mount
RE: Jacking up front of car in one go on subframe-dangerous? - 306Puggy - 05-07-2013
Oh hang on, I got muddled up. Yes you are right
Question, placing the axle stands on the subframe is a bit dodgy isn't it? You won't have a very wide area, it will restrict your movement underneath and there is no metal bit to sit in the cup of the axle stand. It would just rest on the highest points?
RE: Jacking up front of car in one go on subframe-dangerous? - Dum-Dum - 05-07-2013
I always use the rear lip of the subframe to put the stands on by where the bolts go through as the contour suits my strongest stands perfectly.
I have jacked the whole of the front of the car by the sub frame before but your likely to deform it slightly and unless you get the jack perfect you might find it very easy to unbalance the car.
RE: Jacking up front of car in one go on subframe-dangerous? - Grant - 05-07-2013
Subframe is fine. It's where I always jack off.
RE: Jacking up front of car in one go on subframe-dangerous? - ConorTRG - 05-07-2013
It'll be grand, also you could put you stands on the 2 chassis rails going up either side of the car.
RE: Jacking up front of car in one go on subframe-dangerous? - Ben - 06-07-2013
I use a small jack to raise the car on the sill slightly so that I can get a large jack under centre subframe then jack from that and remove the small jack. Much easier than doing one sill then the other.
RE: Jacking up front of car in one go on subframe-dangerous? - Curt - 06-07-2013
I got bored of scissor jacking ages ago, made up 2 small ramps out of 4x4, run the car up then I can slide the trolley jack under. I will be ordering a low entry soon though.
I jack on the subframe too and generally put stands on the chassis rails,. The "v" attachment on my stands are too deep for the sills, so I just remove them and use them flat on the rails.
RE: Jacking up front of car in one go on subframe-dangerous? - 4WayDiablo - 06-07-2013
(05-07-2013, 11:20 PM)Grant Wrote: It's where I always jack off.
Giggidy
Re: Jacking up front of car in one go on subframe-dangerous? - Seb_Ryan - 06-07-2013
Jack it up on jacking points and put axle stands on chassis rails..
Tbh anything chucnky and metal can jack/be support..
RE: Jacking up front of car in one go on subframe-dangerous? - Piggy - 06-07-2013
I would strongly advise against the "chassis rails"
being a monocoque chassis, these are not as strong as you would imagine.
RE: Jacking up front of car in one go on subframe-dangerous? - Fozzy - 06-07-2013
Jack up on subframe just put a bit of 4x2 on there so its spreads the loads and saves you damaging anything, done this heaps of times, works a treat.
RE: Jacking up front of car in one go on subframe-dangerous? - Curt - 06-07-2013
(06-07-2013, 06:53 AM)Piggy Wrote: I would strongly advise against the "chassis rails"
being a monocoque chassis, these are not as strong as you would imagine.
There is nothing wrong with it.
It's not lifting the car on them and it's putting no strain on them. I've never damaged any and I've done it for years.
More stable than the sill generally too, which is important to me.
RE: Jacking up front of car in one go on subframe-dangerous? - Dum-Dum - 06-07-2013
Having cut a 306 into pieces I can tell you that the chassis rails both at the front and under the boot floor are f*cking solid. Took as long to do 1 cut through a chassis rail as it did 2 big cuts through a sill. That said personally i wouldn't like to start supporting on them as they are a bit far back and I like to kneel on the slam panel while working on the car so would be worried about how far forward this would bring the balance point.
RE: Jacking up front of car in one go on subframe-dangerous? - Curt - 06-07-2013
I'm pretty sure the chassis rails furthest front are about the same as the sills aren't they? Further in, but I haven't noticed much further back... Although I'm not a caveman so probably don't have the same issues
RE: Jacking up front of car in one go on subframe-dangerous? - 306Puggy - 06-07-2013
Right, just been outside. Even my low entry jack won't fit underneath the front of my 306! It gets about a third of the way to the drivers side lip (near the wishbone mounting) and it won't go any further. Looks like I will have to use the chassis hanging loops as usual
Re: RE: Jacking up front of car in one go on subframe-dangerous? - Seb_Ryan - 06-07-2013
(06-07-2013, 02:30 PM)306Puggy Wrote: Right, just been outside. Even my low entry jack won't fit underneath the front of my 306! It gets about a third of the way to the drivers side lip (near the wishbone mounting) and it won't go any further. Looks like I will have to use the chassis hanging loops as usual
Are you for real? Whats wrong with the JACKING point? Thats on the sil? Which is higher than the hoop things..
Not being funny but you need to listen to what people say.. its been said a few times lol
RE: Jacking up front of car in one go on subframe-dangerous? - 306Puggy - 06-07-2013
Well if you read what I said you would see that you cannot jack the car up and place an axle stand underneath the same jacking point :roll: So perhaps you need to listen to what people say
Re: RE: Jacking up front of car in one go on subframe-dangerous? - Seb_Ryan - 06-07-2013
(06-07-2013, 02:51 PM)306Puggy Wrote: Well if you read what I said you would see that you cannot jack the car up and place an axle stand underneath the same jacking point :roll: So perhaps you need to listen to what people say
Im a qualified mechanic.. I said earlier what I do.. jack it up, axle stand on chassis leg.
Listen to what people with EXPERIENCE say.. otherwise why bother asking.
RE: Jacking up front of car in one go on subframe-dangerous? - 306Puggy - 06-07-2013
I don't like your attitude so I won't be taking advice from you. You are one of those douchebag mechanics who thinks that no one else should be able to work on a car unless they are "qualified". But you need to be more specific anyway, because the chassis leg is covered by the wing?
Edit: This is how I have got it supported at the moment:
![[Image: P1010031_zps1ed6ac86.jpg]](http://s145.photobucket.com/user/Flynn_bucket/media/P1010031_zps1ed6ac86.jpg.html)
I normally do it like this and it feels pretty stable
Re: RE: Jacking up front of car in one go on subframe-dangerous? - Seb_Ryan - 06-07-2013
(06-07-2013, 03:15 PM)306Puggy Wrote: I don't like your attitude so I won't be taking advice from you. You are one of those douchebag mechanics who thinks that no one else should be able to work on a car unless they are "qualified". But you need to be more specific anyway, because the chassis leg is covered by the wing?
Edit: This is how I have got it supported at the moment:
I normally do it like this and it feels pretty stable
Um chassis leg is no where near the wing?
Im not one of them either.. I tried giving out help.. but they way u got it is very dangerous.. youve got 3mm or metal in contact with the stand at most? A mate of a mate was killed 2 months ago when his car fell of axle stands and crushed him.. and that was done alot better than yours is.
Its not worth the risk.. im not trying to be an arse.. but listen to people who know what they are doing, it could cost you your life..
RE: Jacking up front of car in one go on subframe-dangerous? - 306Puggy - 06-07-2013
Fair enough, you seem a reasonable guy from your reply. But with a lowered 306 I can't see any other way? Sorry to hear about your friend
I thought the chassis leg was the inner wing?
Re: Jacking up front of car in one go on subframe-dangerous? - Seb_Ryan - 06-07-2013
Jack it where u got the jack in your pic.. but the axle stand goes further back.. the chassis legs go pretty much straight behind the loop to the back of car.. cant miss them
RE: Jacking up front of car in one go on subframe-dangerous? - 306Puggy - 06-07-2013
Is this the chassis leg? The pre-squashed bit?
![[Image: P1010032_zps130c471d.jpg]](http://s145.photobucket.com/user/Flynn_bucket/media/P1010032_zps130c471d.jpg.html)
RE: Jacking up front of car in one go on subframe-dangerous? - Dum-Dum - 06-07-2013
Puggy the squished bit isn't the chassis rail, the long bit of box section that runs front to back is.
Just a thought but:
Guides Section > Guide Section Index > The Basics > Jacking and Support Guide > http://306oc.co.uk/forum/thread-33-post-101.html#pid101
RE: Jacking up front of car in one go on subframe-dangerous? - Piggy - 06-07-2013
and why are you jacking it from the front puggy?!
RE: Jacking up front of car in one go on subframe-dangerous? - 306Puggy - 06-07-2013
I'm not jacking it from the front, it was just an idea, but I used my normal method in the end. I can't get the axle stand anywhere near the jacking point due to the width of the jack it's too wide.
RE: Jacking up front of car in one go on subframe-dangerous? - Piggy - 06-07-2013
doh! facepalm.
RE: Jacking up front of car in one go on subframe-dangerous? - ginge191 - 06-07-2013
*insert nice friendly or helpful comment*
RE: Jacking up front of car in one go on subframe-dangerous? - puglove - 06-07-2013
f*ck me that is dodgy! i wouldnt stamd next to that let alone get under it scary shit!!!