If your HDI cuts out or feels under powered

If your HDI cuts out or feels under powered - Printable Version

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If your HDI cuts out or feels under powered - mooey65 - 12-02-2012

Firstly am no expert but I have had a lot of problems with my car not starting and cutting out.

Here is a list of thing for you to check before paying out silly money for someone else to do the work.

This list is only my own experience but it may help you.

1. Always start with the basics When was your car last serviced/check for fuel leaks. I believe the service intervals for oil and filters including fuel and air is every 12000miles although I half this as it cost so little to do it yourself.

2. My car would not start after I uploaded a free remap file to the ECU I up loaded the wrong file and bricked the ECU needed a new ECU.

3. My car would not start until I hit the lift pump with a hammer Needed a new lift pump. Under the rear seats Free - Â£120ish

4. My car cut out as soon as I put my foot down after a remap I changed the fuel pressure regulator (FPR) on the high pressure pump. Free - Â£140

5. My car cut out at 3000rpm on full throttle Removed the fuel pressure regulator (FPR) cleaned it up and refitted it. Cost of some thinners and a can of air Â£10

6. My car would not rev over 3000rpm Red plug behind the fuel filter was loose. Free

7. My car felt under powered and the injectors were loud I Fitted replacement ones but to save you some cash get them tested. Free - Â£400

8. My car would not start and I could not hear the lift pump and iv checked the immobilizer Checked the brown relay behind the ECU. Peugeot Part number 19207L Â£15.94

9. My car started cutting out at random Cleaned up the brown relays socket.

10. My car is running fine but I still have the code of P0230 showing Check the yellow plug at the front of the block and clean it up. The clip Free -

Other things you may like to check if your car feels under powered

11. Your car is a heavy smoker and feels sluggish mass air flow meter MAF Try running it unplugged if it feels better clean it/seek replacement.

12. Your car feels sluggish and hissing Check for boost leaks.

13. Your car feels sluggish and using to much fuel Check your brakes are not sticking.

14. High Pressure Pump Third Piston Shut-Off Switch on top of the hp pump.

If you are close to me please feel free to ask me to have a look.

If I need to edit this or if you would like me to add anything please let me know.

Thanks Martin

RE: If your HDI cuts out or feels under powered - Poodle - 03-10-2012

This is a beginner’s guide, and is a work-in-progress, it is by no means definitive and I am not a professional. Any work undertaken on your car according to this guide is done so at your own risk. I have restricted information in this guide to that which relates directly to the fuel system only. As mentioned in Mooey’s post above, there are other factors that may cause similar symptoms (particularly non-starting), please give these alternative options due consideration before deciding to attack your fuel system. All that aside, this guide contains a lot of information I hope you will find useful. This information has mostly been gathered from my own personal experience and that of certain members of this forum. Particular thanks go to Pro_steve, Mooey65 and Jaymes306, also to a chap whose username I can’t quite remember (maybe Mike_T on .net…?) who first introduced me to the wonders of Lexia/PP2K diagnostic tools.

If I had to make just one recommendation from personal experience, it would be this: Do as much testing as possible before spending any money, you will only regret jumping to conclusions, as will your bank balance (unless you get lucky, and I mean really lucky). lol

Rule Number 1
As you will have probably discovered by working on your car for other purposes by now; never assume the last guy to work on the car knew how to do their job properly – check everything! If something is leaking, don’t jump straight to the conclusion “it must be broken”. Instead, assume the last guy was a moron and check it’s actually been done up/has had the right gasket fitted/is the right part/etc, could save you a lot of time and money in the long-run. Also, don’t fall victim to this yourself, use breaking fluid when taking apart, use correct torque settings when putting together, finish each job completely before moving on to the next to ensure nothing gets missed or forgotten.

Rule Number 2
These systems are seriously picky, the slightest thing out of place can stop them working. To this end, keep everything immaculately clean; the tiniest bit of dirt in the fuel system on the high-pressure side can undo days of hard work, so go careful.

Rule Number 3:
When working on the fuel system, always buy genuine. Doesn’t matter whether this is Peugeot or Bosch, it’s all the same essentially, but don’t waste your time with pattern parts. This applies right down to service items such as the fuel filter. In fact, especially the fuel filter! It’s worth getting friendly with your local Bosch specialists as they will be well qualified to answer any complex questions and, in my experience, are usually happy to help. Might even get some discount… Wink

Tools required:
A wide assortment of basic sockets, spanners, screwdrivers and the like is useful, but I’ve found the two most valuable tools to be:
1. Access to another car that runs fine, so you can swap bits over to try and find the item at fault.
2. Peugeot Planet 2000/Lexia diagnostic tool.
(I realise neither of the above are very accessible to many people, but I’d recommend you beg, borrow or steal your way to having at least one of the two, preferably the PP2K. There are a few members on the forum, myself included, who have these tools already and may be willing to help.)

You will also need:
3. A whole lot of patience. There’s a lot to the fuel systems on these common rail cars and it’s not usually easy to find the fault, so don’t give up easily.

The rest I will put at the top of each item’s section, as there’s a lot and some of it is quite specific.

CONTENTS:

1. Leaks

2. Low Pressure Components
2a) Lift pump
2b) Fuel filter housing

3. Electrical Components
3a) Brown relay
3b) FRPS (Fuel rail pressure sensor)
3c) ECU (Engine control unit)
3d) FPR (Fuel pressure regulator)
3e) Third piston shut-off
3f) Fuel temperature sensor
3g) Other connections

4. High Pressure Components
4a) High pressure pump
4b) Injectors
4c) Fuel rail

*1*

LEAKS:

Firstly, look around the engine bay and fuel system, check for signs of perished hoses, worn fittings, etc. You may find you have obvious signs of a leak - a wet streak down the side of your fuel filter housing or a pool of diesel around one injector, for example. If you find anything, check it is actually diesel (a bit on the end of a finger to sniff - giggidy - should tell you), clean and dry the area carefully and check again after a few (100-200) miles. If the wet patch has reappeared and is definitely diesel, then you shouldn’t have to look far to find your leak.

Prime suspects for leaks:
1. Injector hard-pipe unions
2. Injector leak-off pipes
3. Fuel feed/return pipe unions
4. Fuel filter housing, particularly the lid and drain screw
5. Fuel tank filler elbow/breather hoses

On finding fault with any of the above, as mentioned already, check that the item is properly fitted before paying out to replace it.

It is possible, although unlikely, that your high pressure pump is leaking from one of the fuel controls – the FPR or third piston shut-off solenoid - or one of the fuel lines connected to the HP pump.

*2*

LOW PRESSURE COMPONENTS

Lift pump

[Image: DSC_0202.jpg]

Tools:
Large flat-headed screwdriver
Hammer

The lift pump is under the osr passenger seat, lift the cut out in the carpet and the plastic cover to access. When you switch on the ignition this unit should run for a few seconds to prime the system. Signs of failure are:
Intermittent running.
“Gold” filings in the bottom of the fuel filter housing.

It is worth checking the electrical connections and that the lift pump is receiving the correct signal (6 volts I think, anyone able to confirm?) A poor or absent signal points to the brown relay, covered under “Electrical Components”. Unplug the lift pump from the loom. Use the hammer and screwdriver to tap the plastic securing ring in an anti-clockwise direction to loosen, finish undoing by hand and remove. Surround the hole in the chassis with a sheet of plastic to avoid dropping diesel all over your interior, the lift pump can now be lifted out of the tank. Check the external filters for any muck.

Fuel filter housing

[Image: DSC_0195.jpg]

Tools:
22mm 6-point socket
1m length of fuel hose
Container for fuel

The fuel filter housing is in the front of the engine bay near the centre with 5/6 fuel lines going to/from it. You should be able to hear any air-leaks on this, they will usually make a keening noise; leaking fuel will be visible. There are numerous unions that may leak, as well as the lid or drain screw.

Cover anything below with plastic sheeting to protect it from the spilt fuel, a couple of rags directly underneath should stop the fuel spreading if spilt. Drain the filter housing by the drain screw at the base, connect the hose to the tap and drop fuel into the container. Disconnect the two fuel lines to the lid of the filter housing, plug both sides of the unions immediately to stop dirt getting in. Use the socket and bar to undo the lid, apply pressure progressively and evenly as it’s quite easy to damage the plastic hex. It will unscrew about 90 degrees then lift off, be careful not to lose the spring washer beneath. The fuel filter can just be lifted out, it should be clean and a genuine Bosch. The sealing surfaces on the lid and filter housing should be clean and smooth. There is a sprung ball-bearing type valve in the bottom of the lid, this should be clean and smooth. Remove the drain screw completely to check the condition of the o-ring. The whole housing can be removed by pressing in the tab behind the housing; this can be accessed via a cut-out in the bracket.

*3*

ELECTRICAL COMPONENTS

A multimeter, small screwdriver (to release clips/tabs) and some contact cleaner are useful for most, if not all of the following components.

Brown relay

Tools:
Mirror
Light
10mm socket/spanner

This relay is behind the ECU and quite awkward to access. It controls items such as the lift pump, FPR and fuel heater and can cause intermittent running issues.

Unfasten the relay from its bracket, you may find a mirror and light helpful to see what you’re doing. Unplug it and examine both the plug and socket for signs of a poor connection - dirt, corrosion, signs of arcing, etc.

Note: Signs of failure may not be visible on the exterior of the relay, it is not an expensive part, so if in doubt I would replace it to be sure before paying out on more expensive options.

FRPS (Fuel Rail Pressure Sensor)

[Image: DSC_0191.jpg]

Tools:
27mm spanner

This sensor is screwed into the underneath of the fuel rail with a red plug going to it. A broken FRPS can stop the car from starting or can cause cutting out (ECU shuts off engine when readings go outside of accepted parameters).

Test the signals emitted with a multimeter, you should see about 1.3v at cranking.

Unplug and unscrew from the fuel rail, it will spill fuel, so take precautions as described previously.

ECU [& immobiliser]

[Image: DSC_0203.jpg]

Tools:
10mm socket
EOBD reader

The ECU is situated near the ns base of the windscreen, just behind the battery. It can cause non-starting.

Note : The ECU can be damaged in a number of ways or prevent starting due to other faults, often with the immobiliser.

First check your loom plug and ECU socket for signs of poor connection, arcing or bent pins. If those points are clear, then the only way to really test this is with PP2000. Limited or no connectivity or nonsensical data points to software corruption, you will need to send the ECU off to a specialist to be inspected and, if necessary, repaired. I would recommend testing all alternative options if possible before having the ECU looked at; it is rarely a problem.

First disconnect the battery. Release the clip and remove the loom plug. Undo the 3/4 10mm nuts holding the ECU to it’s supporting bracket and slide it forwards off the studs.

FPR (Fuel Pressure Regulator)

[Image: DSC_0188.jpg]

Tools:
T-30 torx
Multimeter

The FPR is mounted to the gearbox side of the HP pump, facing the fuel filter housing. This can cause running on, poor running, non-starting and cutting out under load.

You can test the signal going to the FPR with a multimeter. (Readings unknown, research continues.) Check for signs of a poor connection in the plug and socket. You can also clean the FPR by flushing it out with WD40, carb cleaner, plusgas, or similar, you should remove the o-rings first to prevent them being damaged by the chemicals.

Undo the two torx-head bolts

Third Piston Shut-off

[Image: DSC_0194.jpg]

Tools:
T-10/15 (confirmation?) torx

Fuel Temperature Sensor

[Image: DSC_0192.jpg]

Tools:
19mm spanner

Other connections

Yellow plug

[Image: DSC_0206.jpg]

*4*

HIGH PRESSURE COMPONENTS

HP Pump

[Image: DSC_0193.jpg]

Tools:
This is a cambelt off job, so you will need a good range of basic tools, but there are no specialist tools required

Any testing of the HP pump requires high-spec flow benches and similar tools only likely to be held by a diesel specialist. If you wish to disassemble the pump yourself regardless, then take a look at my thread here for more details.

Injectors

[Image: DSC_0189.jpg]

Tools:
13mm & 14mm open-ended/crows-foot spanner
13mm socket

Fuel Rail

Tools:
17mm & 19mm open-ended/crows-foot spanner
13mm socket/spanner

If anyone has any ideas for additions to this guide, suggestions for further expansion or mistakes you have spotted, please do drop me a pm and I’ll sort it out. Same goes for questions, I’m always happy to offer help and advice where I can.

RE: If your HDI cuts out or feels under powered - pug306driver - 08-04-2014

I'm gunna have to print this off for bedtime reading.......have you ever come across low power and "fizzzzzzing" due to blocked exhaust?

RE: If your HDI cuts out or feels under powered - Poodle - 09-04-2014

It's a fairly common problem around me as i live in an area with lots of old people, most only drive the car once a fortnight and then it's to bimble over to see the grandchildren at 20mph - cue condensation, collapsed baffles and all of the soot lol. Yet to see it on an HDi though, let us know how you get on. Smile

Also, thanks for the reminder that i've left this guide half-complete, i think i've got some more somewhere to upload, will have to dig it out.

RE: If your HDI cuts out or feels under powered - Davey1000 - 08-05-2015

(12-02-2012, 11:25 PM)mooey65 Wrote: Firstly am no expert but I have had a lot of problems with my car not starting and cutting out.

Here is a list of thing for you to check before paying out silly money for someone else to do the work.

This list is only my own experience but it may help you.

1. Always start with the basics When was your car last serviced/check for fuel leaks. I believe the service intervals for oil and filters including fuel and air is every 12000miles although I half this as it cost so little to do it yourself.

2. My car would not start after I uploaded a free remap file to the ECU I up loaded the wrong file and bricked the ECU needed a new ECU.

3. My car would not start until I hit the lift pump with a hammer Needed a new lift pump. Under the rear seats Free - Â£120ish

4. My car cut out as soon as I put my foot down after a remap I changed the fuel pressure regulator (FPR) on the high pressure pump. Free - Â£140

5. My car cut out at 3000rpm on full throttle Removed the fuel pressure regulator (FPR) cleaned it up and refitted it. Cost of some thinners and a can of air Â£10

6. My car would not rev over 3000rpm Red plug behind the fuel filter was loose. Free

7. My car felt under powered and the injectors were loud I Fitted replacement ones but to save you some cash get them tested. Free - Â£400

8. My car would not start and I could not hear the lift pump and iv checked the immobilizer Checked the brown relay behind the ECU. Peugeot Part number 19207L Â£15.94

9. My car started cutting out at random Cleaned up the brown relays socket.

10. My car is running fine but I still have the code of P0230 showing Check the yellow plug at the front of the block and clean it up. The clip Free -

Other things you may like to check if your car feels under powered

11. Your car is a heavy smoker and feels sluggish mass air flow meter MAF Try running it unplugged if it feels better clean it/seek replacement.

12. Your car feels sluggish and hissing Check for boost leaks.

13. Your car feels sluggish and using to much fuel Check your brakes are not sticking.

14. High Pressure Pump Third Piston Shut-Off Switch on top of the hp pump.

If you are close to me please feel free to ask me to have a look.

If I need to edit this or if you would like me to add anything please let me know.

Thanks Martin

I've been running a 306 2.0 HDi Meridian estate for about three months but IMHO its the worst car I've ever owned. OK I only paid £300 for it and it had a long MOT but it started using water after a few weeks. I added leak stop but it still lost water then one day I noticed it having a pee after I switched off. If seemed like it might be the pipe at the rear of the engine so I ran the car without its pressure cap which was OK for short trips. The highest temperature has been 90, the "STOP!" warning light has never lit up and the car still starts first time every time so presumably the head gasket is OK. As I could never see where the water was coming from I put the car on ramps and removed the undertray. Next I ran the engine but there were no leaks! Not at first anyway. The radiator cap was then fitted and after a while drops of hot water started to drip. The water was coming from behind the crankshaft pulley so it is sure to be the water pump. On a Rover 800 with the VM diesel I could change the water pump in half an hour including having a tea break as its just a case of undoing four nuts. On the 306 HDi its a truly nauseating job so I'll probably scrap the car. Sure I have the tools and the belt kit but at my age I just don't have the patience to mess with anything that I regard as a poor or extremely poor design. Allegedly garages charge up to £500 to do this job which makes a car with a leaking pump worthless - not quite actually as the scrap man pays £68 per ton for scrap cars.

RE: If your HDI cuts out or feels under powered - Poodle - 08-05-2015

I'll give you a ton for it.

Edit: Actually, just re-read and noticed you've put leakstop in it, have fun with that.

RE: If your HDI cuts out or feels under powered - Jonny81191 - 08-05-2015

£102. next bidder Tongue

Actually, ^ what he said.

RE: If your HDI cuts out or feels under powered - gromit190 - 26-01-2018

The fuel pump on my 306 makes a lot of noise. Sometimes when I try to start it, I'm too quick to turn the key while the fuel pump is still working and then it won't start. Also I've noticed that the engine almost cuts out when idle. I'm guessing I should replace the fuel pump ASAP before it breaks down on my at a very inconvenient time.

So just a couple of questions from a shameless newbie:

- How do I know if my car has (is?) HDI? If it matters, it's a 2000 model, 1.6L (gas), automatic.
- Where is this picture (below) from, exactly? It's written "osr passenger seat", but what does that mean? What is "osr"?

When I lift my back passenger seats, I see two black covers (one near the center of the car, and one near the right side). Both of them seem very hard to get off, so I'd really like to be sure which is the right one before I force it off.

(03-10-2012, 07:25 PM)*2* Wrote: LOW PRESSURE COMPONENTS

Lift pump

Sorry if I should've made this into a separate thread, but I felt my questions were kinda directly related to this thread. Even if it's 5+ years old Itwasntme

RE: If your HDI cuts out or feels under powered - Mighty306 - 26-01-2018

This thread relates to diesels Grommit so much of it isn't relevant. The 'in tank' pumps are in the same location though. OSR means offside rear - I.e. In the UK rear passenger seat farthest from the kirb. For you it will be the rear passenger seat near the kirb.

The cover you need to remove (yes, some force required) is the outer, not the central one.

The other common factor between diesel n petrol 306's is that power to the fuel pump is contolled by a relay. It is possible that's the source of your problems but you've said your pump is very noisy. you can't normally hear the pump inside the car.

RE: If your HDI cuts out or feels under powered - Piggy - 27-01-2018

306 HDi the worst car ever... Because the water pump is leaking.... 2.5hrs of work and it be all done??!?

What I got the most from this thread including that stupid post... Investigate first before jumping to conclusions and pouring stop leak in and gunking up every narrow coolant path and causing more headaches than the actual fault has caused.

(water pump is also seen as a serviceable/perishable item)

And Davey1000... If you don't want to work on an engine with poor design regarding anything related to maintenance or servicing.... Don't buy anything post 2000!