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+--- Thread: Cambelt Change (timing hole alignment) (/showthread.php?tid=14441)
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Cambelt Change (timing hole alignment) - Mark - 05-06-2013
Hi, I'd like to ask for a bit of advice:
Started to change the cambelt this afternoon. Things were going alright, removed the cambelt covers (bolt on the back of the top cover wasn't the worst bit, some seemingly pointless bracket that fouled the removal of the cover was!), loosened the crank pulley bolt after having to use the starter motor trick as conventional methods were not working, removed the aux belt but then it came to the locking of the engine.
I managed to locate the hole behind the starter after a while of trying (not wanting to remove the starter) and locked it (using a metal tent peg which seemed to do the job). Then I put an M8 bolt into the Cam hole which threaded in alright. However the holes on the injection pump don't quite line up with the holes on the engine side
I could clearly see one of the bolts was at an angle so just cross threaded. One of the bolts would go in a few turns but then stop as it fouled the side of the hole in the pulley (or cross threaded, can't quite tell). So I don't know what to do. I did wonder if the peg used for the flywheel was thick enough perhaps meaning the engine could be rotated a slightest bit more, but the cam bolt went in okay. Not sure if it means it has been a tooth out all this time, or maybe if it were a tooth out the pump holes would be even more out of alignment. Is it possible for the belt to have stretched?The car has been running okay. Would it be that noticeable if the pump has been out of timing for years? As the car has been alright, do I put the bolts in a couple of turns and fit the new belt leaving it in the same position, or do I align the holes properly after removing the old belt? It's one of those things where I want it to be as it should, however don't want to cause issues when the car has been working.
Sorry for the many questions!
Thanks
RE: Cambelt Change (timing hole alignment) - martyn92 - 05-06-2013
I would take out the bolts and try align the flywheel better with an allen key, 6mm I think or 5mm. It may just be a very slight turn from aligning
RE: Cambelt Change (timing hole alignment) - Mark - 05-06-2013
I did think about doing that just in case it was a slight turn away, but I thought it was strange how the cam seemed to be lined up fine. What I used was probably about 4mm
RE: Cambelt Change (timing hole alignment) - Danny2009 - 05-06-2013
Try a 6mm mate that's the proper size, try it in a 6mm socket to check the size of it then go from there
RE: Cambelt Change (timing hole alignment) - Mark - 05-06-2013
Okay, thanks, I'll try that tomorrow and let you know if it works
RE: Cambelt Change (timing hole alignment) - Jenkosowls - 05-06-2013
As long as the cam and fly are locked you can move the pump timing to the correct position. There are 2 timing holes on the pump pulley 12 and 5 o'clock. Just makes sure before removing as the fly has 2 timing holes also
RE: Cambelt Change (timing hole alignment) - darrenjlobb - 06-06-2013
just cut the belt, then lock the pump after using spanner on it if you have to, probs just needs turning a tad to line it up...
RE: Cambelt Change (timing hole alignment) - Mark - 06-06-2013
Thanks for the replies
Spent a bit of time on it this evening, tried a bigger pin to lock the flywheel & the pump still didn't quite line up properly. So took your advice and continued, got the old belt off then moved the pump pulley fractionally so the bolts fitted alright. I've changed the tensioner, so now got the water pump to do then I can get the new belt on and get it all back together. I am being very careful & therefore slow with everything as it is the first belt change I've done but hopefully that means everything will be done correctly
RE: Cambelt Change (timing hole alignment) - Dum-Dum - 06-06-2013
When i did my HDi i didn't entirely trust the locking pins but i knew it was timed up fine before so I marked the pulleys with white paint on one of the teeth then counted the teeth on the belt between the marks on the pulleys and I knew it couldn't move that far out then when i put the belt back on I just counted the teeth to check and it were easy from there.
RE: Cambelt Change (timing hole alignment) - ADV_93 - 06-06-2013
Had this exact problem with mine when i did my cambelt a few weeks ago. The cam pulley and flywheel locked up fine, but the diesel injection pump wasn't and when i placed a bolt in the bolt was at an angle and not going in sqaure. But as the car was running fine before, just used tipex on the cam/fuel pulley and the crank wasn't going nowhere. Changed belt, fired her up and ran sweet
RE: Cambelt Change (timing hole alignment) - Fozzy - 06-06-2013
For locking the crank i have the perfect tool
![[Image: stick_paint_roller_handle.jpg]](http://img.diytrade.com/cdimg/1145246/12524049/0/1271485236/stick_paint_roller_handle.jpg)
Little bit of bending and its easy to fit it can do it with your eyes closed.
RE: Cambelt Change (timing hole alignment) - Jonny81191 - 06-06-2013
Fozzy that's genius
RE: Cambelt Change (timing hole alignment) - Mark - 07-06-2013
I did the white paint/tippex idea just to be sure like suggested.
Like the idea of the paint roller, must be easier to locate in the flywheel!
Came across another slight difficulty, got the old water pump off but the old gasket is not wanting to come off at all
Is it ok to lightly sand the surface of the old gasket and put the new one over the top?
RE: Cambelt Change (timing hole alignment) - ADV_93 - 07-06-2013
(07-06-2013, 11:19 AM)Mark Wrote: I did the white paint/tippex idea just to be sure like suggested.
Like the idea of the paint roller, must be easier to locate in the flywheel!
Came across another slight difficulty, got the old water pump off but the old gasket is not wanting to come off at all
Yeah, that's fine mate! You need to get the old gasket off to get a proper seal! Also, make sure none of the debris goes into the engine itself, try and block the whole in the block with some rag or something! Once it's all removed, get the new gasket on and it's always a wise idea to use a bit of sealant on the water pump too to prevent any leaks just incase. Don't go over the top with it though, just a smudge around the pump/gasket and refit it!
RE: Cambelt Change (timing hole alignment) - Mark - 07-06-2013
I don't think I can get the old one off, it is really stuck on and I've been wasting time trying to get it off
RE: Cambelt Change (timing hole alignment) - ADV_93 - 07-06-2013
(07-06-2013, 11:57 AM)Mark Wrote: I don't think I can get the old one off, it is really stuck on and I've been wasting time trying to get it off
Just keep going at it mate! If need be, get a flat head screwdriver and a tapping stick and go around the hole and try to tap the gasket off as much as you can!
RE: Cambelt Change (timing hole alignment) - Mark - 07-06-2013
I kept at it in the end and got most of it off anyway. I used a screwdriver & also sandpaper to try and tackle it!
The new aux belt didn't fit so had to use the old
Also I forgot to put the bottom cambelt cover on until I had the crank pulley fully done up and thread locked & aux belt on and tensioned 
I really didn't want to have to take it all off so cut bits off the cover and put the pieces on that I could fit around, I know it would probably be better leaving it off completely just in case the bits aren't lined up It is all back together now though & runs! Coolant took a while to bleed but think its good now. Only issue is, I can hear a noise that wasn't there before. It happens when the engine is slowing down again after being revved. Can't really describe the noise but I'm worried it may be one of the covers catching
RE: Cambelt Change (timing hole alignment) - martyn92 - 07-06-2013
My cambelt used to hit the top covers when it was a little too slack. I would get a new aux belt too when you can as you don't want that to snap and make contact with anything
RE: Cambelt Change (timing hole alignment) - Mark - 07-06-2013
Did it cause harm with rubbing slightly? I'm guessing mine must be rubbing on something as there is definitely a strange noise when the engine slows down rapidly (reving in neutral). I'll probably have to source a new cover and take the crank pulley off and fit it
I'm planning to get a new aux belt very soon as I don't want to run the risk of that going
RE: Cambelt Change (timing hole alignment) - Dave - 07-06-2013
Could be useful to someone
RE: Cambelt Change (timing hole alignment) - ADV_93 - 07-06-2013
(07-06-2013, 05:10 PM)Mark Wrote: I kept at it in the end and got most of it off anyway. I used a screwdriver & also sandpaper to try and tackle it!
The new aux belt didn't fit so had to use the old
It is all back together now though & runs! Coolant took a while to bleed but think its good now. Only issue is, I can hear a noise that wasn't there before. It happens when the engine is slowing down again after being revved. Can't really describe the noise but I'm worried it may be one of the covers catching
That's normal pal, it took to of us to get the actual aux belt and timing belt on because they were that tight. You have to get the aux belt off =, then the crank pulley and then the timing cover mate! If the covers catching, turn the engine over by hand whilst pushing the belt towards the engine and then spin it a further once or twice by hand to make sure the belt is tracking true.
RE: Cambelt Change (timing hole alignment) - Mark - 07-06-2013
That is quite a useful video. Watched Darren's video on youtube which was brilliant. Just wish everything was just as easy as it appears in the video! Those bottom cambelt covers are not easy to find, wish I hadn't have cut mine hoping I could piece it in
Decided it's for the best that I get one, take the crank pulley off and fit a cover
RE: Cambelt Change (timing hole alignment) - Mark - 07-06-2013
(07-06-2013, 07:03 PM)ADV_93 Wrote: That's normal pal, it took to of us to get the actual aux belt and timing belt on because they were that tight. You have to get the aux belt off =, then the crank pulley and then the timing cover mate! If the covers catching, turn the engine over by hand whilst pushing the belt towards the engine and then spin it a further once or twice by hand to make sure the belt is tracking true.
Sorry, for some reason your reply didn't come up before! Really, the aux belt is meant to be that hard to fit? The old one comes on and off with ease once the tensioner is fully released yet the new aux belt wouldn't. The timing belt went on fine though.
Yeah I realise that now, but I've damaged the bottom cover so need to get a new one which might be difficult. Will have the nightmare of getting the crank pulley off again to fit a cover once I get one. I will turn the engine over by hand and watch the belt while I do so.
RE: Cambelt Change (timing hole alignment) - ADV_93 - 08-06-2013
(07-06-2013, 07:59 PM)Mark Wrote:(07-06-2013, 07:03 PM)ADV_93 Wrote: That's normal pal, it took to of us to get the actual aux belt and timing belt on because they were that tight. You have to get the aux belt off =, then the crank pulley and then the timing cover mate! If the covers catching, turn the engine over by hand whilst pushing the belt towards the engine and then spin it a further once or twice by hand to make sure the belt is tracking true.
Sorry, for some reason your reply didn't come up before! Really, the aux belt is meant to be that hard to fit? The old one comes on and off with ease once the tensioner is fully released yet the new aux belt wouldn't. The timing belt went on fine though.
Yeah I realise that now, but I've damaged the bottom cover so need to get a new one which might be difficult. Will have the nightmare of getting the crank pulley off again to fit a cover once I get one. I will turn the engine over by hand and watch the belt while I do so.
Mine was, i had to hold the belt and spin the engine over whilst someone (stronger) than me was feeding the belt onto the power steering pulley as it kept falling off the idler pulley! Do you have access to an air gun? Would help you loads! There's only 2 or 3, 10 mm bolt behind the pulley holding the bottom timing cover on too! If you don't have an air gun, put the car into 5th gear and get someone to hold the brake as hard as possible then try and loosen with a breaker bar!
RE: Cambelt Change (timing hole alignment) - Mark - 08-06-2013
Quote:Mine was, i had to hold the belt and spin the engine over whilst someone (stronger) than me was feeding the belt onto the power steering pulley as it kept falling off the idler pulley! Do you have access to an air gun? Would help you loads! There's only 2 or 3, 10 mm bolt behind the pulley holding the bottom timing cover on too! If you don't have an air gun, put the car into 5th gear and get someone to hold the brake as hard as possible then try and loosen with a breaker bar!
I did try something like that, but had the issue of it falling off the tensioner! Still think I have the incorrect belt now as apparently the one I've got is for earlier models. No, don't have an air gun. Will do the 5th gear & brakes on whilst using a long bar & if not use the flick of the starter motor. Yeah, it is only 2 10mm bolts behind the pulley & the other one further up the side. Just got to find a new cover 1st
RE: Cambelt Change (timing hole alignment) - ADV_93 - 08-06-2013
(08-06-2013, 09:30 AM)Mark Wrote:Quote:Mine was, i had to hold the belt and spin the engine over whilst someone (stronger) than me was feeding the belt onto the power steering pulley as it kept falling off the idler pulley! Do you have access to an air gun? Would help you loads! There's only 2 or 3, 10 mm bolt behind the pulley holding the bottom timing cover on too! If you don't have an air gun, put the car into 5th gear and get someone to hold the brake as hard as possible then try and loosen with a breaker bar!
I did try something like that, but had the issue of it falling off the tensioner! Still think I have the incorrect belt now as apparently the one I've got is for earlier models. No, don't have an air gun. Will do the 5th gear & brakes on whilst using a long bar & if not use the flick of the starter motor. Yeah, it is only 2 10mm bolts behind the pulley & the other one further up the side. Just got to find a new cover 1st
Did you compare the old belt to the new belt in sizes? Just act like you're trying to stretch them by putting them both between your thumbs and pulling them away from each other and see if there's any difference in size! Keep me updated on how it goes pal!
RE: Cambelt Change (timing hole alignment) - Mark - 08-06-2013
Quote:Did you compare the old belt to the new belt in sizes? Just act like you're trying to stretch them by putting them both between your thumbs and pulling them away from each other and see if there's any difference in size! Keep me updated on how it goes pal!
Yes, I did do that and the old was slightly longer. Not much but it must make all the difference when trying to feed it on. Will do!
RE: Cambelt Change (timing hole alignment) - ADV_93 - 08-06-2013
(08-06-2013, 10:44 AM)Mark Wrote:Quote:Did you compare the old belt to the new belt in sizes? Just act like you're trying to stretch them by putting them both between your thumbs and pulling them away from each other and see if there's any difference in size! Keep me updated on how it goes pal!
Yes, I did do that and the old was slightly longer. Not much but it must make all the difference when trying to feed it on. Will do!
Yeah, it does mate! You need to make sure the belts are exactly the same length or else it won't go on! The proper length is a PITA to get on! You don't want to fit a belt too short because you'll nacker pulley bearings!
RE: Cambelt Change (timing hole alignment) - Mark - 08-06-2013
That's what I was thinking, didn't want to cause any damage! Will source the proper one
RE: Cambelt Change (timing hole alignment) - Mark - 20-06-2013
Just to update on this....
Got a bigger Gates aux belt from ebay delivered last week & fitted that along with the bottom cambelt cover. The longer belt went on easily which was a relief after attempting to fit the shorter one before! All appears to be running fine now
Oh, forgot to say: Thanks for all the advise