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+--- Thread: MG ZR: Cams & Maps (/showthread.php?tid=14360)
RE: MG ZR: Time to beat a 1.4 - lolsteve - 30-08-2014
Oh you guyssss
Can't wait for combe now, see if it all pays off
RE: MG ZR: Time to beat a 1.4 - procta - 30-08-2014
if you want to pull off the 1.4 look, then remove the 160 badge. i kept the 1.1s on the little egg beater. just to keep people well fooled, and i tell you what it works!
RE: MG ZR: Time to beat a 1.4 - Toms306 - 30-08-2014
Well at least that's a more achievable aim!
Also, does anyone looks at badges? Most will just assume an old metro will be slow, and the opposite for a 'sporty' looking ZR...
RE: MG ZR: Time to beat a 1.4 - Danny2009 - 30-08-2014
If you look at badges before deciding weather or Not to tear off from the lights you have no balls or a 1.1 metro
Badges don't mean nothing Steve proved that :p
Need to get it on rollers mate it feel any quicker
RE: MG ZR: Time to beat a 1.4 - procta - 30-08-2014
(30-08-2014, 10:10 PM)Toms306 Wrote: Well at least that's a more achievable aim!
Also, does anyone looks at badges? Most will just assume an old metro will be slow, and the opposite for a 'sporty' looking ZR...
well this corsa owner did, as he decided to try and sit off the metros bumper, but was well pissed off when i left him. That was going up hill in 3rd gear!
(30-08-2014, 10:24 PM)Danny2009 Wrote: If you look at badges before deciding weather or Not to tear off from the lights you have no balls or a 1.1 metro
Badges don't mean nothing Steve proved that :p
Need to get it on rollers mate it feel any quicker
Tbh dan, when i had the gta 16v badge on the back, no one didn't sit off the arse end of the car, one micra owner did once and got a nasty surprise.
But the thing with these ZRs they are just too bloody heavy man.
RE: MG ZR: Time to beat a 1.4 - lolsteve - 31-08-2014
(30-08-2014, 10:06 PM)procta Wrote: if you want to pull off the 1.4 look, then remove the 160 badge. i kept the 1.1s on the little egg beater. just to keep people well fooled, and i tell you what it works!Remove the 160 badge, remove skirts and fit hairpins and it'll have the 1.4 look. Although really do think these need skirts with the larger front/rear bumpers
(30-08-2014, 10:24 PM)Danny2009 Wrote: If you look at badges before deciding weather or Not to tear off from the lights you have no balls or a 1.1 metro
Badges don't mean nothing Steve proved that :p
Need to get it on rollers mate it feel any quicker
Dick
I was hoping to get it rolled at the yorkshire rr day as it would have been a good benchmark against the previous years roll
RE: MG ZR: Time to beat a 1.4 - lolsteve - 14-09-2014
Combe has been and gone. This was the ultimate test for me to see if I'm back and running as a 160 should be...
Not really no, on the straights i was (and sam feel free to correct me) neck and neck with his 1.8 itb which was roll'd at 130? Admittedly my engine is pretty much stock just thought it would have had that little bit more with it having the vvc having a high flow head against what is agreed as a restrictive head for sam. Not to offend sams 1.8 as it does sound chronic as was giving some others their monies worth
Power isn't the only concern with this on the track, I don't feel stable when reaching high speeds. Like I don't trust it to not loose control, this could be down to myself as a person or the budget tyres and iffy brakes with what feels like bouncy suspension. Feels like it bounces over the track rather than others which seem more stable and glide over it..if it makes sense . Really want someone else to take it for a spin, if I had the money I would have paid another £40 and asked someone else to drive it to get a second opinion but couldn't risk it either with it being a daily now too
RE: MG ZR: Time to beat a 1.4 - jammapic - 14-09-2014
Steve, I've told you... That suspension is garbage... It needs replacing asap! Always welcome at jp's garage!
Power wise, I agree with you. If you couldn't keep up with the mx5 last weekend then it certainly needs more gogo.
Now you are up this way, let's get it on the dyno and start tuning...
JP
RE: MG ZR: Time to beat a 1.4 - THE_Liam - 14-09-2014
It does feel pretty under-damped Steve, and your brakes were fading pretty badly when I was on track with you. Is it standard suspension? Try some uprated dampers, preferably adjustable, because I'd definitely say the damping is the problem. And bin those budgets, tyres are the most important thing, its like Usain Bolt running the 100 metres in flip flops
RE: MG ZR: Time to beat a 1.4 - Piggy - 14-09-2014
Cheap tyres.
Poor brakes.
Poor damping.
Dont mean to be a moaner/grinch....but I am not surprised it feels a bit rubbish.
RE: MG ZR: Time to beat a 1.4 - jammapic - 14-09-2014
Its massively stiff because of the springs but seriously under damped because of the dampers... So its mega mega bouncy. It needs a decent set of matched springs and dampers, or if the money stretches a decent set of coilovers. Don't bother with cheap ones, they will be even worse.
Decent brakes on there, and a proper set of tyres too and you'll be laughing...
JP
RE: MG ZR: Time to beat a 1.4 - cully - 14-09-2014
it is really suprising a different/ good set of tyres can transform the handling of the car
i have experiance with this at the nurburg ring after running my road tyres back to back with a set of A048's
with a good set of tyres you will probably lay off the brakes more and not cook them
maybe just upgrading the fluid to race fluid would help a lot it has on mine
RE: MG ZR: Time to beat a 1.4 - lolsteve - 14-09-2014
(14-09-2014, 02:27 PM)jammapic Wrote: Steve, I've told you... That suspension is garbage... It needs replacing asap! Always welcome at jp's garage!Cheers man, after you mentioned it I began to notice it more. Will check under the car tomorrow see if I can get a look at the rear shocks, as swear I recall them having scrap yard writing on them.
Power wise, I agree with you. If you couldn't keep up with the mx5 last weekend then it certainly needs more gogo.
Now you are up this way, let's get it on the dyno and start tuning...
JP
Needing a remap now, perhaps the mapping will not so much up the peak power but make it more reactive i.e remove throttle lag which saw someone mention gets removed a bit from the standard mapping after a z&f
(14-09-2014, 02:49 PM)THE_Liam Wrote: It does feel pretty under-damped Steve, and your brakes were fading pretty badly when I was on track with you. Is it standard suspension? Try some uprated dampers, preferably adjustable, because I'd definitely say the damping is the problem. And bin those budgets, tyres are the most important thing, its like Usain Bolt running the 100 metres in flip flopsStandard dampers with lowering springs, thing is it's weird the standard shocks on the zr are meant to be uprated a bit like gti6 ones I guess, perhaps they've aged too much? Did feel quite a bit of body roll this time around so maybe they've reached their time.There isn't any after market shocks for these which is proper annoying not even oem level replacements. Well there is but they tend to be more expensive than coilovers of which there are two options AVO or Gaz, neither as you can guess are very affordable
(14-09-2014, 03:53 PM)cully Wrote: it is really surprising a different/ good set of tyres can transform the handling of the carWas really giving the brakes hell this time pushing everything to the limit to try and keep up. Think racing fluid will be the way to go so I'm not having to bleed the brakes every time, does it like need warming up to work well like racing pads?
i have experiance with this at the nurburg ring after running my road tyres back to back with a set of A048's
with a good set of tyres you will probably lay off the brakes more and not cook them
maybe just upgrading the fluid to race fluid would help a lot it has on mine
RE: MG ZR: Time to beat a 1.4 - cully - 14-09-2014
racing fluid stays stable and dont boil to way above std fluid and no it dont need warming up like tyres or pads
RE: MG ZR: Time to beat a 1.4 - 7057sam - 14-09-2014
Was a good laugh on track but just felt like you needed another gear . obviously rowell s 6 speed shorter ratio box would of helped with a curcuit like combe.
Would be interesting to see what figures it makes
RE: MG ZR: Time to beat a 1.4 - procta - 14-09-2014
if you were closer to me steve, id have had a look at it for you, just to see what is going on with it.
RE: MG ZR: Time to beat a 1.4 - jammapic - 14-09-2014
I personally think the engine is healthy and strong myself.
Steve, we will stick it on the dyno and see what is what.
JP
RE: MG ZR: Time to beat a 1.4 - welshpug - 14-09-2014
maybe you're looking in the wrong places for dampers, look for Rover 200 ( R3 ) and 25 stuff.
RE: MG ZR: Time to beat a 1.4 - procta - 15-09-2014
(14-09-2014, 07:19 PM)jammapic Wrote: I personally think the engine is healthy and strong myself.
Steve, we will stick it on the dyno and see what is what.
JP
these engines will only produce about 155 bhp from what I read a few years ago.
for some reason they read less than Rover stated, The older units can go to about 160 from 143, that's with the 52mm throttle body, air filter, and a decent exhaust.
did he replace the brown sensor? as that can make a massive difference on how these run too,
also he is better off asking the Racers to see what they run too, rather than the rover forum lot, Might be worth asking what you lads run on your cars suspension wise.
RE: MG ZR: Time to beat a 1.4 - Poodle - 15-09-2014
(14-09-2014, 03:17 PM)Piggy Wrote: Cheap tyres.
Poor brakes.
Poor damping.
Dont mean to be a moaner/grinch....but I am not surprised it feels a bit rubbish.
This. No disrespect to what Rowell's achieved, but if you'd spent half the money he has you would have stayed ahead. It's pretty obvious from the video you're pretty much on the limit of what the car can do, get some decent tyres already!
RE: MG ZR: Time to beat a 1.4 - Matt-Rallye - 15-09-2014
Should've bought a 200 BRM bro
RE: MG ZR: Time to beat a 1.4 - Eeyore - 15-09-2014
(15-09-2014, 05:52 AM)Poodle Wrote:(14-09-2014, 03:17 PM)Piggy Wrote: Cheap tyres.
Poor brakes.
Poor damping.
Dont mean to be a moaner/grinch....but I am not surprised it feels a bit rubbish.
This. No disrespect to what Rowell's achieved, but if you'd spent half the money he has you would have stayed ahead. It's pretty obvious from the video you're pretty much on the limit of what the car can do, get some decent tyres already!
yep you dont need to spend anything like I have. youve started with a faster car so you just need to do some of the basic track upgrades and should be onto a winner. In fact not even half what ive spent. I reckon you can do it for a 1/3rd or less. Stupid me for starting with a slow car.
RE: MG ZR: Time to beat a 1.4 - lolsteve - 15-09-2014
(14-09-2014, 07:45 PM)welshpug Wrote: maybe you're looking in the wrong places for dampers, look for Rover 200 ( R3 ) and 25 stuff.Thing is the 200/25 are different, the zr ones are stiffer and shorter. A 25 damper with my lowering springs means they would fall out the cup every time the car is jacked up
(15-09-2014, 04:37 AM)procta Wrote: did he replace the brown sensor? as that can make a massive difference on how these run too,The brown vvc sensor?
(15-09-2014, 05:52 AM)Poodle Wrote: This. No disrespect to what Rowell's achieved, but if you'd spent half the money he has you would have stayed ahead. It's pretty obvious from the video you're pretty much on the limit of what the car can do, get some decent tyres already!I'm not complaining I couldn't have him in the twisties (it is a 306 after all
) but on the straights where I would have thought the zr would have had it there was nothing in it between us. Looking at tyres last night briefly, forum opinion on spec2s?
(15-09-2014, 07:09 AM)Matt-Rallye Wrote: Should've bought a 200 BRM broWouldn't mind the lsd
Shame they didn't fit one as standard to the zr or at least the 160 (15-09-2014, 09:43 AM)SRowell Wrote: yep you dont need to spend anything like I have. youve started with a faster car so you just need to do some of the basic track upgrades and should be onto a winner. In fact not even half what ive spent. I reckon you can do it for a 1/3rd or less. Stupid me for starting with a slow car.Once you've got you gti6 head on though I'm fk'd
not stupid I'd say brave for trying something different at least just keep at it and it'll pay off
Re: RE: MG ZR: Time to beat a 1.4 - Pete - 15-09-2014
(15-09-2014, 07:09 AM)Matt-Rallye Wrote: Should've bought a 200 BRM broPlus you get quilted red leather like a boss. Love brms shame they're mostly made of rust these days
RE: MG ZR: Time to beat a 1.4 - Matt-Rallye - 15-09-2014
My friend has one (alongside his metro gti) and i love it! the rover 200 BRM was a proper special edition, pimping seats, 143bhp, LSD as standard!! ad that orange grille!
If i had it my way i would have a lotus K series powered metro gti. It would be a giant killer!
Steve, Another friend of mine has a collection of MG ZR's including a tomcat turbo (248bhp) and a 160 etc etc and his 160 has full expensive coilovers on the 17" multispokes. hes on pagid discs with Greenstuff pads and said its the best setup really without going for aftermarket brakes. He did mention something about a rover 75 brake master cylinder making a good difference ad using dot 5.1 fluid to prevent brake fade as they are worked hard on ZR's.
Also i used to have a bright yellow ZR 120+ and thought i was the boy
RE: MG ZR: Time to beat a 1.4 - procta - 15-09-2014
(15-09-2014, 07:09 AM)Matt-Rallye Wrote: Should've bought a 200 BRM bro
they are lighter than the ZR I think too,
have you seen my metro thread?
RE: MG ZR: Time to beat a 1.4 - Matt-Rallye - 15-09-2014
(15-09-2014, 12:03 PM)procta Wrote:(15-09-2014, 07:09 AM)Matt-Rallye Wrote: Should've bought a 200 BRM bro
they are lighter than the ZR I think too,
have you seen my metro thread?
i have indeed sir and so subscribe too it in secret.
RE: MG ZR: Time to beat a 1.4 - Poodle - 15-09-2014
(21-06-1974, 08:10 PM)SRowell Wrote: yep you dont need to spend anything like I have. youve started with a faster car so you just need to do some of the basic track upgrades and should be onto a winner. In fact not even half what ive spent. I reckon you can do it for a 1/3rd or less. Stupid me for starting with a slow car.
I didn't mean it like that, just Steves always bemoaning money as his restricting factor. Besides, you didn't set out building yours for it to set the earth on fire though, you wanted something different that made you smile every time you got in, and if you haven't managed that then you're a hard bugger to please.
Thing is i'm not convinced yours was faster on the straight, you were clearly carrying much more speed through the corners so for the first part of the straight you were definitely pulling away. Once the MG got going you could see it reeling you in a bit though, certainly not dropping away any more. As you say, you've started with a car that's significantly slower as standard, so for it to be beating the MG with ease...
RE: MG ZR: Time to beat a 1.4 - Dum-Dum - 15-09-2014
Steve what size are the brakes on this? Is there an upgrade from the MGZT or similar? That could be a good option.
RE: MG ZR: Time to beat a 1.4 - Piggy - 15-09-2014
(15-09-2014, 01:11 PM)Dum-Dum Wrote: Steve what size are the brakes on this? Is there an upgrade from the MGZT or similar? That could be a good option.
The MGF 160 brakes are pretty epic but ruddy expensive. The discs are MEGA bucks