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+--- Thread: Injector related shinanigans (/showthread.php?tid=11163)
Injector related shinanigans - Just Sean - 21-02-2013
So been doing some research regarding nozzles, i was just going to bang some 110hp '072' injectors in and be done, however came across THIS. Am i right in thinking that a hdi inj nozzle has 5 holes that are 0.175 mm wide each, now with the research pointing to the fact that smaller size nozzle orrifices give more bhp
Quote:2.4 10V 100kW CF2 CR-IPS19-ZEREAK10S-BOSCH 0 445 110 002 DSLA145P763 5x0,185
2.4 10V 103kW 10/2001 -> CR-IPS19-ZEREK10S-BOSCH 0 445 110 119 DSLA144P1295 6x0,165
2.4 10V 103kW -> 10/2001 CR-IPS19-ZEREK10S-BOSCH 0 445 110 068 DSLA144P1021 6x0,165
2.4 10V 110kW CR-IPS19-ZEREK10S-BOSCH 0 445 110 119 DSLA144P1295 6x0,165
2.4 20V 120kW CR-IPL17-ZEREK10S-Bosch 0 445 110 111 DLLA148P1221 6x0,150
2.4 20V 129kW CR-IPL17-ZEREK10S-Bosch 0 445 110 111 DLLA148P1221 6x0,150
Would something along the lines of 8x0.15 injectors be a good upgrade nozzle.
something like these...
DSLA143P970 0433 175 271 CP 8x0,16x143° Nozzle CR
DSLA143P1058 0433 175 309 CP 8x0,16x143° Nozzle CR
DSLA140P1723 0433 175 481 CP 8x0,16x140° Nozzle CR
With regards to flow angles, the 076 injectors are 142, so the ones mentioned above are only going to be 1deg off. Which in comparison to merc injectors being about 20degs off is already looking a much sounder investment...
Im no expert in this matter. But my understanding is that the part numbers are for the nozzle tips and that they will need fitting to hdi bodies. Could they just fit to the standard hdi bodies, or should i upgrade to the 076 bodies or is their no point changing the bodies?
By the time ive added the R70 pump and 1800 pfr i should be producing enough pressure to get the most out of the 8x0.16 nozzles, but are the orifce sizes too small?
With no means of testing and mapping and testing and mapping every different solution, i really need to get the best i can from the info around.
I want to get close to the 200bhp figure.
RE: Injector related shinanigans - Midnightclub - 21-02-2013
You can get over 200bhp on standard injectors albeit i imagine they're quite close to their limits.. Interesting find though, wonder if 1 degree is still too much to cock it up.. Should help with the fuelling up high though which is what you desperately need!
RE: Injector related shinanigans - Just Sean - 21-02-2013
Thinking about loglevity, i really dont wanna push the standard injectors that hard, would rather it be more effecient as i dont want to lose any energy through heat loss, which is what id imagine at the hard limits!
People managed to run the merc tips... 1deg i personally cant see it being a problem.
RE: Injector related shinanigans - cully - 21-02-2013
http://306oc.co.uk/forum/thread-5399.html?highlight=nozzle
RE: Injector related shinanigans - Poodle - 21-02-2013
A lot of good info there mate, but you need to look into plane angles. Hdi injectors are sat unusually upright invthe head, so you need to find some designed for a similar angle.
RE: Injector related shinanigans - Ruan - 21-02-2013
HDis are not sat upright at all! They sit at quite an angle backwards, about 15* backwards...
Go and take a look at other engines and there's usually one major factor that changes how the injector sits... Go look at petrols too, their spark plugs do the same thing with this change - it's quite obvious when you look.
The cone angle DSLA155P1240+ Doesn't make any difference really, you can be up to about 10* out and it really doesn't matter, however PLANE angle as mentioned by Poodle does seriously matter - get it wrong, it's a recipe for melted engines!
There was a thread back along where Darren explained most of this, but essentially when you tilt the injector, it then starts to matter what angle of rotation the injector sits in the head... That is specified by the crows foot/injector body, offset bushing and nozzle mounting...
Sean - look at the table you posted up again, look at the orifice size in relation to the amount of holes - obviously more holes at the same size = more flow, they realised that it's better to have more holes, but smaller for better atomisation... But notice the one thing that's different between the 6x0.150 nozzles and the 6x0.165 nozzles - which seemingly are just 20v vs 10v engines (oh look, I've just given the game away
)... One has a DSLA part number and one has a DLLA part number, I'll leave that to you to find out why they're quite a bit different and the hole size is smaller... I'll give part of it away that the later 20v engines run a later CommonRail system that can run higher pressures (higher pressure = more fuel in a given time)...
RE: Injector related shinanigans - Poodle - 21-02-2013
Oh are they unusually canted over then? My bad, basically was just pointing out that the angle is unusual, so more difficult to find tips for.
RE: Injector related shinanigans - Ruan - 21-02-2013
Maybe not unusually so, but all the engines with injectors like that are low powered, so the nozzles will be no better!
My advice: Injectors with more holes, then make the holes bigger