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Re: Social Experiment - Violinist - Mattcheese31 - 22-02-2012
class relates to lots of things, it used to refer to people with money some time ago, now though it seems it more refers to people that will only socialise with people that they believe to be of an equal social standing to themselves . . . .it is now possible for a poor person to obtain an excellent education if they should so wish, another blurring of the lines as higher education used to be reserved for the upper esholons of society, now not so much,
there used to be preserves for the upper classes like: shooting, Polo, Fox hunting, errrm f*cking Croquet .
. .but really they don't stand true as they used to, really to me class is invisible, i like to think i'm a step up from the scrubbers who drink special brew for breakfast round my neck o' the woods, so i guess we all pitch ourselves somewhere on the social scale, if you say you don't you are a fcuking liar . .sorry but it's true . . . . . .
on this note i believe i have negated the need for any more discussion on said subject . . . . mods feel free to close this thread . .
Matt . . . .
Re: Social Experiment - Violinist - ginge191 - 22-02-2012
Matt, thanks for the genuine input and yes, you are correct - i started into this world in near poverty with a single parented family, and now im at university, so yes, this has changed.
you talk about the special brew thesis, there's something called 'cultural capital', give a quick google and get the basis for it, will enlighten you a lot on this
Re: Social Experiment - Violinist - Mattcheese31 - 22-02-2012
ginge191 Wrote:Matt, thanks for the genuine input and yes, you are correct - i started into this world in near poverty with a single parented family, and now im at university, so yes, this has changed.there's not many people know much more about society and class than me Ginge, what i know has been gleaned from life, meeting with many different kinds of people and travelling to almost every corner of the UK . . . . . .not really something you can pick up from a book . . . .
you talk about the special brew thesis, there's something called 'cultural capital', give a quick google and get the basis for it, will enlighten you a lot on this
Re: Social Experiment - Violinist - ginge191 - 22-02-2012
Mattcheese31 Wrote:ginge191 Wrote:Matt, thanks for the genuine input and yes, you are correct - i started into this world in near poverty with a single parented family, and now im at university, so yes, this has changed.there's not many people know much more about society and class than me Ginge, what i know has been gleaned from life, meeting with many different kinds of people and travelling to almost every corner of the UK . . . . . .not really something you can pick up from a book . . . .
you talk about the special brew thesis, there's something called 'cultural capital', give a quick google and get the basis for it, will enlighten you a lot on this
agreed mate - as have i, but there is more to society than the UK when you begin to compare it to over countries (living and working abroad for the past 4 years), thats when it gets exciting ..... <--- need to get a life now
Re: Social Experiment - Violinist - Ed Doe - 22-02-2012
I'm sorry Ginge, you're just running around the playing field with a bag over your head gigglind and dragging the goalposts as fast as you can here....
This WHOLE THREAD is irrelevant.
It doesn't prove that class is irrelevant, just that the video hasn't quantified each audience, so cannot define one as upper class and another as not.
It doesn't prove that class is relevant either, as the spread of pop culture through the media permits a musician who makes popular music to be more recognised. Just as high culture is not as popular.
All it proves is that people who are interested in something will pay to see it in their own time in a scenario where they can appreciate it.
Its just the same as cars. People who aren't interested in suspension set-ups aren't going to listen to Rippthrough and will still continue to buy shit racebland coilovers, but people who ARE interested will hang onto his every word, and will ultimately pay more for a better set up.
Same applies to almost anything you care to mention.
/discussion
Re: Social Experiment - Violinist - Mattcheese31 - 22-02-2012
i'm sure Ginge, it bugs me though and i know you're studying it but i'm not a fan of trying to analyse people without actually getting among them and getting to know shit in the real world . . . books are 2D, reality is 4D . .
Re: Social Experiment - Violinist - Kezzieboy - 22-02-2012
I think there is still a class system, it's just the lines are a lot more blurred than they were in the days of bourgeois vs proletariat!
From my experience at university so far there just seems to be a vast middle class of people living very comfortably, but that you wouldn't necessarily call 'rich'.
I also think the issue is blurred by the fact the baseline has raised substantially, it's easy to work out peoples backgrounds at uni simply by asking what student finance they get. I live in the cheapest halls available, and yet am one of only maybe 3 people (out of around 30) that gets the full grant provided to those with a household income of less than ~£20k IIRC. Even in this accommodation I'd say the majority get little to no grant, meaning a household income of £50k+
It's hard to categorise people using the traditional measures (as Cheesey boy said) as by income, I'm very much working class, however as my dad is self-employed in a skilled job I could be seen as middle class, and from the outside by looking at our house you'd guess upper-middle (although that's entirely due to good fortune with the mortgage and housing market!).
Another fun one to include is debt, as I've grown up with plenty of people whose parents always drive new cars, but it's purely because they borrow the money, further confusing the situation from an outside perspective.
So yeah, dunno where I'm going with this, other than I'd say there is still a class-system, it's merely less visible and rigid than in the past.
Re: Social Experiment - Violinist - ginge191 - 22-02-2012
Mattcheese31 Wrote:i'm sure Ginge, it bugs me though and i know you're studying it but i'm not a fan of trying to analyse people without actually getting among them and getting to know shit in the real world . . . books are 2D, reality is 4D . .
hence putting together social experiments and theories, or 4D + 2D
Ok ed, lets close this thread now then please.
EDIT: in response to using popular culture as being more of a governor to this experiment than class, then you could also continue to argue how popular cultures nowadays distinguish classes through, as Ruan said, the advent of technologies, given the ability to instant access.
surely a certain class would perceive a certain common taste? in this case, the violin and upper classes.
Ed, what you're arguing is that class is impossible to relate into anything, thats fine, im not disputing that. but there is no need to /discussion if you disagree with something
refer to Kez ^^^^ for class being relevant.
Re: Social Experiment - Violinist - Mattcheese31 - 22-02-2012
ginge191 Wrote:i just mean that there's so many parameters involved that it's more easy to draw a wrong conclusion from things like this, which in all honesty i believe that you are . . . . .someone can tell you how sweet a rose smells but you really need to get out and stick your nose right in there and take a deep breath . .Mattcheese31 Wrote:i'm sure Ginge, it bugs me though and i know you're studying it but i'm not a fan of trying to analyse people without actually getting among them and getting to know shit in the real world . . . books are 2D, reality is 4D . .
hence putting together social experiments and theories, or 4D + 2D
Ok ed, lets close this thread now then please.
Re: Social Experiment - Violinist - ginge191 - 22-02-2012
Mattcheese31 Wrote:i just mean that there's so many parameters involved that it's more easy to draw a wrong conclusion from things like this, which in all honesty i believe that you are . . . . .someone can tell you how sweet a rose smells but you really need to get out and stick your nose right in there and take a deep breath . .
wheres the rep button??
couldnt agree more
edit: a small bit about cultural capital http://educatedgirl.hubpages.com/hub/Wh ... al-Capital , and yes matt, you can smell the roses after you read that text
Re: Social Experiment - Violinist - Rippthrough - 22-02-2012
Ed Doe Wrote:Its just the same as cars. People who aren't interested in suspension set-ups aren't going to listen to Rippthrough and will still continue to buy shit racebland coilovers, but people who ARE interested will hang onto his every word, and will ultimately pay more for a better set up.
Same applies to almost anything you care to mention.
/discussion
...and then you get sad bastards like me who happily while away hours with a file modifying the innards....
Re: Social Experiment - Violinist - Connor - 22-02-2012
ginge191 Wrote:@ Connor - "Its not popular" - a sold out concert the night before for tickets selling over $100, that's enough evidence for me at least to allow it to be 'popular'
@ Ruan - Again, as i said to connor a number of times, your stating my same arguement but with different words. i also agree that class is irrelevant, read my first post.
- the violin can be irrelevant, its how you interepret the experiment - i interpreted class and how it is becoming irrelevant, somewhere along this thread people are reading that im arguing that class differences still exist? im not....
- As i said, i interpreted class and tastes being irrelevant in this experiment, Kez points out busy people not having time, Matt picked out the economic side of it, connor picked out popular tastes, ruan picked up technological enhancements...
Now @ Connor, who is right from the above - as i'm guessing im clearly wrong...
But when you sell tickets for a concert, people who like that sort of music choose to pay and go see it, it might not be very popular, but that doesnt mean to say that there isnt enough people who do like it, to sell it out. That experiment is totally irrelevant, it only proves that its not a popular taste of music.
And as to who is right about, I have no fecking idea now, as Ive forgotten what was originally said and cannot be bothered to track back
Social Experiment - Violinist - ben87 - 22-02-2012
I LOVE LAMP
Re: Social Experiment - Violinist - Poodle - 23-02-2012
^^^ Most sensible thing i've read in here yet lol.