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+--- Thread: 1.8 Turbo (/showthread.php?tid=3054)
Re: 1.8 Turbo - ginge191 - 27-04-2012
Think ruan speaks a lot of sense - i wouldn't bother going near a derv related turbo, they're derv related for a reason.
I'm sure with a bit of reading around on petrol turbo forums, you'll find a decent turbo - may be irrelevant but seeing the VXR turbos - they're running KKK K06 turbos on their Z20LEx engine, literaly just browsedd t'internet to see what perv turbos are running on standard cars...
Anywho... i'm watching this very closely, see what the cost is in the end
From what darren was saying, with the know how you could do it for a decent price.
Re: 1.8 Turbo - THE_Liam - 27-04-2012
ginge191 Wrote:Think ruan speaks a lot of sense - i wouldn't bother going near a derv related turbo, they're derv related for a reason.
There's not really any such thing as a derv-related turbo mate, the T2 was used on the R5 GT Turbo and the Escort/Fiesta RS Turbo
Re: 1.8 Turbo - 4WayDiablo - 27-04-2012
ginge191 Wrote:Think ruan speaks a lot of sense - i wouldn't bother going near a derv related turbo, they're derv related for a reason.
What about everyone who went for td04? Were they all wrong because they're perv related turbo's?
Re: 1.8 Turbo - mark_airey - 27-04-2012
4WayDiablo Wrote:ginge191 Wrote:Think ruan speaks a lot of sense - i wouldn't bother going near a derv related turbo, they're derv related for a reason.
What about everyone who went for td04? Were they all wrong because they're perv related turbo's?
Opposite way round though phill, petrols rev, diesels not as much, as a result the diesel ones tend to tail off into the higher revs as they can't supply enough air/keep up with the required flow
Re: 1.8 Turbo - 4WayDiablo - 27-04-2012
mark_airey Wrote:WHATevvveerrrrrrrr.... lol4WayDiablo Wrote:What about everyone who went for td04? Were they all wrong because they're perv related turbo's?
Opposite way round though phill, petrols rev, diesels not as much, as a result the diesel ones tend to tail off into the higher revs as they can't supply enough air/keep up with the required flow
Re: 1.8 Turbo - Ruan - 27-04-2012
4WayDiablo Wrote:ginge191 Wrote:Think ruan speaks a lot of sense - i wouldn't bother going near a derv related turbo, they're derv related for a reason.
What about everyone who went for td04? Were they all wrong because they're perv related turbo's?
T2 or T25 describes NOTHING to do with the actual turbocharger... It's just it's frame... You can get "T25" turbos thathave a smaller compressor than a "T2".
The A/R is totally wrong on TD04s, don't get me wrong, they're not ideal by any stretch of the imagination... They're just pretty good and cheap - to get something CORRECT... That's when you go to Turbo Dynamics or whoever.
Diesel turbos are NOT the same as Petrol ones, they're designed with two different power deliveries in mind... One provides it's power at 7000rpm, the other at around 4000rpm... The airflow demands are vastly different there... That's where A/R comes in - it essentially compensates for the airflow out of the exhaust so it doesn't restrict the engine at higher RPMs... A Diesel will have a fairly small A/R (i.e. the gasses are heavilly restricted, however the velocity that it hits the turbine blades is much higher) whereas a Petrol will have a larger A/R (i.e. the gasses are less restricted, it's more laggy, but it means you can pump more air at a lower pressure through the exhaust housing)
As always it's a compromise...
This is the exact principle VNT turbos work on, they essentially change the A/R of the exhaust housing, so when the vanes are closed up, it accelerates the gasses through a small nozzle (Hence variable nozzle...) which hits the blades quickly, when the vanes open, it reduces backpressure and allowsmore gas to move... Hence why if you keep the vanes closed, you'll see 60psi of boost, but you won't go anywhere and you'll successfully melt the cylinder head in the process..
Remember - air in has got to equal air out.
Using petrol turbos on a Diesel isn't a bad thing - it just means you'll end up having to rev it harder to get the airflow out the exhaust to spin the turbine... Whereas using a Diesel turbo on a petrol means you'll just end up restricting the engine, it'll have shit all power off boost, then as it comes on boost, it can't pump enough air through the exhaust housing, quickly getting things very hot and running out of power very quickly...
1.8 Turbo - Jonny b - 27-04-2012
Nial Iam buying my emerald soon want me to see if I can cut a deal for a couple of em?
Re: 1.8 Turbo - Niall - 27-04-2012
Jonny b Wrote:Nial Iam buying my emerald soon want me to see if I can cut a deal for a couple of em?
Yeah that would be good. What are you doing about a loom? Buying or making? I won't need a loom as I can happily make it up my self.
1.8 Turbo - Jonny b - 27-04-2012
Well the loom is 90 for plug and play, I could make my own but if for some reason it goes up in smoke after all the cash I have spent I would be royally pissed ha ha if Iam spending a grand what's another 90
Re: 1.8 Turbo - 4WayDiablo - 27-04-2012
Jonny b Wrote:Well the loom is 90 for plug and play, I could make my own but if for some reason it goes up in smoke after all the cash I have spent I would be royally pissed ha ha if Iam spending a grand what's another 90and then they cant blame it on your pikey lash up of a loom lol
1.8 Turbo - Jonny b - 27-04-2012
Exfuckingzactly
Re: 1.8 Turbo - THE_Liam - 27-04-2012
Ruan Wrote:T2 or T25 describes NOTHING to do with the actual turbocharger... It's just it's frame... You can get "T25" turbos thathave a smaller compressor than a "T2".
I never knew that, so a T2 on an XUD is nothing like the one on an RS Turbo? Could just use a petrol one then
Re: 1.8 Turbo - Ruan - 27-04-2012
But they're wank!
1960/1970s technology... Why would you bother when you could get something far better for the same money?!
Much as everyone wanks over them - TD04s are a perfect option...
As has always been said, look at a car around the same displacement and power you want to run and get a turbo off of it, generally good for 20-25% either way... So Subaru EJ20G - 2.0l, around 200hp depending on variant... Perfect!
And cheap, and LOADS of flanges for them, many going spare... And it's a MUCH more modern turbo..
Re: 1.8 Turbo - Dave - 27-04-2012
Would love to see someone try stick a VNT on a petrol, and watch what happens as the turbo suddenly demands 50psi at the exhaust manifold
bog bog bog bog bog bog
Re: 1.8 Turbo - kingy - 27-04-2012
i aint got a clue what ya need but i really do wish you all the best for the build. i will keep a eye on this post and see how your getting on.
1.8 Turbo - kentiiboii - 27-04-2012
I gave up reading the second page as it was nonsense to me. But I demand you do this
will be epic
Re: 1.8 Turbo - Joe - 27-04-2012
Niall Wrote:Right some of you might have heard me talking about this and I'm getting very serious about it but am in need of help with the planning.
After a chat with Ruan, he seems to reckon I can get about 10-12psi on standard internals. If I was to go higher, I would need new internals which would be very costly as no one makes pistons and rods for the 1.8 so would have to be custom made!
What turbo would I be looking at using? I'm trying to work out at the moment if it's worth doing this. Obviously it's not going to be cheap so is the cost going to be worth the potentially small gain in power?
Basically I just put this thread up as a discussion and to hear people's views and more professional opinions (darren, Ruan.....) because I want to get as much info as possible before diving in and starting to buy parts.
why not get a 406 sri engine and bolt it in?
Re: 1.8 Turbo - mark_airey - 27-04-2012
Joe Wrote:Niall Wrote:Right some of you might have heard me talking about this and I'm getting very serious about it but am in need of help with the planning.
After a chat with Ruan, he seems to reckon I can get about 10-12psi on standard internals. If I was to go higher, I would need new internals which would be very costly as no one makes pistons and rods for the 1.8 so would have to be custom made!
What turbo would I be looking at using? I'm trying to work out at the moment if it's worth doing this. Obviously it's not going to be cheap so is the cost going to be worth the potentially small gain in power?
Basically I just put this thread up as a discussion and to hear people's views and more professional opinions (darren, Ruan.....) because I want to get as much info as possible before diving in and starting to buy parts.
why not get a 406 sri engine and bolt it in?
2 reasons spring to mind, 1 is that its boring and been done before and the other is that its a pretty shit 8v engine!
Re: 1.8 Turbo - Ruan - 27-04-2012
Joe Wrote:why not get a 406 sri engine and bolt it in?
150hp, heavier than a 1.8 16v, shit ECU... You might as well just shove in a GTi6 engine, much as I hate them...
1.8 Turbo - THE_Liam - 27-04-2012
There's a lot of potential in the 406 SRI engine, but it takes a lot of money to get it...
Re: 1.8 Turbo - Midnightclub - 27-04-2012
I take it none of the 16v heads fit the sri block?
Re: 1.8 Turbo - Niall - 28-04-2012
Tbh I've got very faith in the tuning capabilities of the Sri engine. Peugeot 8 valves seem to be fantastic (there was 1 or 2 people on the 106 forum running almost 300bhp from the early 1.3 rallye engine!) but as said, boring!
There must be a reason Peugeot used the 1.8 lump in the wrc car and I want to find out why!
Dave would be epic if you could bog it and get chronic smoke like a derv.....oh wait..mine does that at the moment anyway.
Going to phone the exhaust place today and get a rough idea of price for the manifolds then start looking at a way of getting the map off of the 1.8 ecu to use temporarily until it goes for mapping.
Re: 1.8 Turbo - mark_airey - 28-04-2012
Niall Wrote:Tbh I've got very faith in the tuning capabilities of the Sri engine. Peugeot 8 valves seem to be fantastic (there was 1 or 2 people on the 106 forum running almost 300bhp from the early 1.3 rallye engine!) but as said, boring!
There must be a reason Peugeot used the 1.8 lump in the wrc car and I want to find out why!
Dave would be epic if you could bog it and get chronic smoke like a derv.....oh wait..mine does that at the moment anyway.
Going to phone the exhaust place today and get a rough idea of price for the manifolds then start looking at a way of getting the map off of the 1.8 ecu to use temporarily until it goes for mapping.
I'm not saying you can't tune the SRi, I know you can, you just need to throw lots of money at it and in standard form they are shite, and I'm not saying 8valves are crap either, as you say, Peugeot made some very good ones (look at the 205 1.9GTi) but why have 8valves when the other option gives you 16?
you might as well do something interesting and different hadn't you. Its a good project and there must be some reason why they chose the 1.8 over the 2.0!
Re: 1.8 Turbo - darrenjlobb - 28-04-2012
Could drop another 200cc tho and boost a TU5 16v, now that would be a good idea
Re: 1.8 Turbo - Niall - 28-04-2012
darrenjlobb Wrote:Could drop another 200cc tho and boost a TU5 16v, now that would be a good idea
Seen it done many a time. They go well but arnt reliable at all! Well the ones I saw weren't!
Re: 1.8 Turbo - Atterz - 28-04-2012
And without getting a BE gearbox conversion done you will be popping the POS boxes that TU engines come with!
And whats wrong with 6 engines Ruan
Re: 1.8 Turbo - darrenjlobb - 28-04-2012
Niall Wrote:darrenjlobb Wrote:Could drop another 200cc tho and boost a TU5 16v, now that would be a good idea
Seen it done many a time. They go well but arnt reliable at all! Well the ones I saw weren't!
Good point, deffo carry on with this plan, anything to avoid being boring with a 6 engine, altho a big naughty turbo would be good as not huge ammount of people have got around to doing that, but then youd need to spent alot of money in the bottom end to make it support chronic hp on that / any of the motors.
Re: 1.8 Turbo - Niall - 28-04-2012
darrenjlobb Wrote:Good point, deffo carry on with this plan, anything to avoid being boring with a 6 engine, altho a big naughty turbo would be good as not huge ammount of people have got around to doing that, but then youd need to spent alot of money in the bottom end to make it support chronic hp on that / any of the motors.
You know, I did think about leaving it for a few years and instead of getting rid of the car, keeping it as a project car and doing something silly like that! Would be epic!
Re: 1.8 Turbo - Atterz - 28-04-2012
Im seriously debating wether to go down the 1.8 route due to the serious weight advantage there, definatly more Rallye spec! If turboed id aim for a max of 300Bhp and focus massively on the response of the engine as opposed to massive power and loads of lag! Supercharger + turbo on a 1.8? O yes please.
1.8 Turbo - kentiiboii - 28-04-2012
Sounds good Niall just need to get some plans together and get the show on the road.