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+--- Thread: Towing...B+E clarification...Advice (/showthread.php?tid=25707)
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RE: Towing...B+E clarification...Advice - Ruan - 04-08-2014
KUGA ESTATE 2.0 TDCi 163 Titanium 5dr GVW 2250KG
Towing...B+E clarification...Advice - Sambarker - 04-08-2014
Off down Exeter to pick my other 305 up at weekend, my dads coming with as he needs to pick something up from Swindon, gonna just stick l plates on for lolz
RE: Towing...B+E clarification...Advice - mr_fish - 04-08-2014
Don't worry sam, 305 doesn't weigh that much, specially after how much of its own rust the engine ate.
RE: Towing...B+E clarification...Advice - nominous - 04-08-2014
OK,
So if these figures are for my car:
Total (curb) weight (kg) 1385
Gross (max.) weight (kg) 1880
What is the max towing weight?
Will it ever be greater than the Gross weight ?
If not, that'd mean I have to get a trailer and car (noting it's kerb weight??) under 1880kg to be legal ?
Should the max towing weight be stamped on the car anywhere ?
RE: Towing...B+E clarification...Advice - THE_Liam - 04-08-2014
It needs to be under 1385kg mate.
RE: Towing...B+E clarification...Advice - nominous - 04-08-2014
Well I'm boned then
So in the USA they can have a brake system that activates the hydraulic brakes of the car on a A frame using a linear actuator.
I believe hydraulic brakes are not allowed on trailers in the UK - that correct? Unless it's an ex military landy or something like that.
If with a A frame the car is considered to be a trailer, do all wheels have to be braked?
Could you use the mechanical hand brake as a trailer brake ?
RE: Towing...B+E clarification...Advice - toseland - 05-08-2014
No they are, but it is controlled via an actuator on the brake pedal of the car being towed and has to be retrofitted. There is a company that does it near me, they have a small actuator or ram on the towing hitch, you slow down it compresses the hitch and applies the brakes. Same as the manual version on normal trailers
All the wheels need to be braked,
(04-08-2014, 06:25 AM)Sambarker Wrote:(04-08-2014, 01:27 AM)toseland Wrote: To clarify the point.. VOSA suggests that once an A frame is attached to a vehicle, it becomes a trailer for all intents and purposes. and as such should conform to MAM/Weight regulations and braking regulations, ie it is not a car on a trailer. the towed car BECOMES the trailer itself and weighs however much is appropriate..
i am assuming they have charged you and you have the right to a court appearance if so necessary...
now consider this carefully.. you have the right to go to court regarding this and it can be appropriately argued that you were not exceeding VOSA's recommended 3500kg total train weight, OR the plated towing limit of the ford kuga.. and hence not breaking the law.
were brake lights used? if so no problem
was the towing vehicle displaying appropriate numberplates on the back of the xzara? if so no problem..
was the Xzara disabled at the time of towing (battery unconnected and/or removed), if so no problem, but a tiny issue
i would suggest having a look at hte weights..
Kuga can tow 2100kg, weight of the car = ???
total train weight exceeding 3500? if not, then your licence is valid and the police man is wrong according to VOSA..
I haven't had anything with regards to any possible penalties, I presume enough time has now passed so hopefully shouldn't expect anything
(04-08-2014, 12:24 AM)welshpug Wrote: even if you have a towing licence that trailer is illegal behind a kuga.
I haven't picked the trailer up yet, they were figures for it off the interweb. If it's been downplated then I will be ok, if not will probably downplate it to 2000kg
They have up to 6 years to prosecute mate, but you should have had to surrender the licence however.. I can't remember the specifics.
Did he read you your rights at the side of the road? If so then you were charged there and then
Towing...B+E clarification...Advice - Sambarker - 05-08-2014
Read me rights at side of road but said he was referring me to the cps, I thought with motoring offences if they were going to procecute they had 14 days to issue you with a nip
RE: Towing...B+E clarification...Advice - nominous - 06-08-2014
(05-08-2014, 08:13 AM)toseland Wrote: No they are, but it is controlled via an actuator on the brake pedal of the car being towed and has to be retrofitted. There is a company that does it near me, they have a small actuator or ram on the towing hitch, you slow down it compresses the hitch and applies the brakes. Same as the manual version on normal trailers
Any info on that company please, save trying to find them via google ?
TBH if that's legal, it's quite easy to brew something up.
Forget electrical, can just be done with hydraulics as per the manual version and than I could use an A frame.
Wire all the lights to active off the 13 pin connection too. Job done
RE: Towing...B+E clarification...Advice - toseland - 06-08-2014
http://www.sgmtowing.co.uk/
its all retrofitted to the car.. they actually modify the sub frame of the vehicle and add hitching points for hte A frame
and no not so easy to "throw something together", the trailer needs to be verified and tested, all their work is Emarked and certified, it would be illegal without it as the trailer would be a new construction
(05-08-2014, 08:03 PM)Sambarker Wrote: Read me rights at side of road but said he was referring me to the cps, I thought with motoring offences if they were going to procecute they had 14 days to issue you with a nip
the CPS will decide whether or not to prosecute, as this isnt an offense that is dealt with by way of fixed penalty..
it would be the same if you said "i want to go to court" at the side of the road or refused the ticket for say.. speeding, or were caught speeding over what could be reasonably dealt with by way of a FPN
Towing...B+E clarification...Advice - Sambarker - 06-08-2014
(06-08-2014, 09:42 PM)toseland Wrote: http://www.sgmtowing.co.uk/
its all retrofitted to the car.. they actually modify the sub frame of the vehicle and add hitching points for hte A frame
and no not so easy to "throw something together", the trailer needs to be verified and tested, all their work is Emarked and certified, it would be illegal without it as the trailer would be a new construction
(05-08-2014, 08:03 PM)Sambarker Wrote: Read me rights at side of road but said he was referring me to the cps, I thought with motoring offences if they were going to procecute they had 14 days to issue you with a nip
the CPS will decide whether or not to prosecute, as this isnt an offense that is dealt with by way of fixed penalty..
it would be the same if you said "i want to go to court" at the side of the road or refused the ticket for say.. speeding, or were caught speeding over what could be reasonably dealt with by way of a FPN
I disagree, if they wanted to prosecute, they would have had to send me a notice of intended prosecution within 14 days of the day I was pulled and read my rights
RE: Towing...B+E clarification...Advice - toseland - 07-08-2014
(06-08-2014, 11:54 PM)Sambarker Wrote:(06-08-2014, 09:42 PM)toseland Wrote: http://www.sgmtowing.co.uk/
its all retrofitted to the car.. they actually modify the sub frame of the vehicle and add hitching points for hte A frame
and no not so easy to "throw something together", the trailer needs to be verified and tested, all their work is Emarked and certified, it would be illegal without it as the trailer would be a new construction
(05-08-2014, 08:03 PM)Sambarker Wrote: Read me rights at side of road but said he was referring me to the cps, I thought with motoring offences if they were going to procecute they had 14 days to issue you with a nip
the CPS will decide whether or not to prosecute, as this isnt an offense that is dealt with by way of fixed penalty..
it would be the same if you said "i want to go to court" at the side of the road or refused the ticket for say.. speeding, or were caught speeding over what could be reasonably dealt with by way of a FPN
I disagree, if they wanted to prosecute, they would have had to send me a notice of intended prosecution within 14 days of the day I was pulled and read my rights
they can prosecute up to 6 years after the reported offence mate, 14 days is an absolute myth.
RE: Towing...B+E clarification...Advice - nominous - 07-08-2014
(06-08-2014, 09:42 PM)toseland Wrote: its all retrofitted to the car.. they actually modify the sub frame of the vehicle and add hitching points for the A frameCheers for the link. That wouldn't work quite for me, I'd want different attachment points that a large lump of steel behind the bumper.
Quote:and no not so easy to "throw something together", the trailer needs to be verified and tested, all their work is Emarked and certified, it would be illegal without it as the trailer would be a new construction
Trailer? You mean the A frame part ?
I'll go read the regs. I don't think there is a problem when it comes to trailers as far as making your own. For a A frame, does this mean it's treated differently?
So the DIY approach is not allowed - we be surprised.
Since hydro or electric control over the towed vehicle is allowed, it's fairly easy to build something to control it. Including the required vacuum pump.
RE: Towing...B+E clarification...Advice - toseland - 07-08-2014
your trailer will be illegal if its not E-Marked,
RE: Towing...B+E clarification...Advice - nominous - 07-08-2014
So I'll emark it and say it came from China.
Towing...B+E clarification...Advice - Ben Jay - 11-08-2014
I'm still pretty confused with this. And would love a yes or no answer. Can I legally tow a trailer with a mini on it in my estate?
RE: Towing...B+E clarification...Advice - toseland - 11-08-2014
we need to know the plated weight of the trailer, teh total weight of the mini, and the GVW of your estate mate.