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+--- Thread: Upcoming elections (/showthread.php?tid=24051)
RE: Upcoming elections - Kezzieboy - 15-05-2014
You're all being completely distracted from the real issues here. The government and media want you to hate those on benefits so that you don't hate them. While a few people live on benefits and maybe some even do fairly well from it, there are businesses, and even individuals (ahem, Mr Bernie Ecclestone: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/10791537/Bernie-Ecclestone-accused-of-biggest-ever-personal-tax-dodge.html even a Tory paper reported this one!) who have evaded enough tax to pay all the benefits in this country. It's a joke, we get furious at the cost to the state of a few people living a modest life at the expense of the taxpayer while those earning the most pay the least.
We're angry because we work our arses off for little reward while those on benefits get the same standard of living for nothing. Do you not think that means that YOU should be getting a BETTER standard of living? Not just making theirs worse? We're playing into the hands of the old money that runs this country, distracted by the plight of the poor and ignoring the disgusting actions of the mega-rich.
The poverty trap is alive and well, the majority are fine with a national minimum wage that isn't even a minimum wage. Fine with the Tories bringing in the disgusting 'workfare' schemes, forcing people to work in exploitative zero-hour contracts, to the benefit of their CEO chums who the the companies that profit from this. It's a joke.
/soapbox
RE: Upcoming elections - Kwik - 15-05-2014
http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/reasons-to-vote-alternative-2014.html
SNM
RE: Upcoming elections - Kezzieboy - 15-05-2014
Glad to see another 'another angry voice' fan. Brilliant blog, and that article gives pretty good reasons not to vote ukip. Especially in the European elections.
RE: Upcoming elections - Kwik - 15-05-2014
He says what I think but more eloquent lol
RE: Upcoming elections - Dodgy Bob - 15-05-2014
(15-05-2014, 09:16 AM)RetroPug Wrote: I think we should adopt the German system, whereby if you have not worked in the UK for 3+ years you cannot claim unemployment benefits. Theoretically, you've come to a country to work and contribute, so if you haven't done so yet clearly something's up.
Now that I totally agree with, but on the flip side should we ever try to implement something like that Europe are bound to step in and prevent us saying we're discriminating against others, even though them themselves have such a system. Face it in the eyes of Europe we're a little island off the mainland that they can send all the crap they don't want to and if we try sent it back they blackmail us!
RE: Upcoming elections - Scott - 15-05-2014
>System in Germany
>UK implements same system
>European Union unhappy with UK implementation
Unless I've missed the memo, Germany is in Europe, so I don't see how or why the EU could contest the same system being brought about in another European country.
RE: Upcoming elections - nominous - 15-05-2014
I don't have a problem with people coming here to work or TBH coming and claiming benefits.
I do have an issue with the 3rd and 4th generation of unemployed whose parents are unemployed and their parents, and have no interest in getting a job.
They are brought up in comfortable enough surroundings for them, don't know any better and TBH don't want to.
They don't work because there is no work ethic instilled, but 3-4 generations of milking the system for as much as they can get and doing the dodge to get a little more.
It's not that it's nice enough that the middle class should join them, but if you don't know any better and are happy enough, why would you change anything?
No social responsibility, free to do whatever you want all day long and still get money handed to you.
No aspirations to be better. Just sky, beer and fags.
Some people are happy enough with that.
I'm not interested in living in their environment, but one does have to wonder how it's fair that I'm subsiding rent, council housing upgrades such as kitchens, bathrooms, boilers, double glazing, solar panels for them to get free electric, etc.
And that's the reality, not the Daily Mail...
I've no issue with people on benefits due to piss poor wages, or disability or temporary circumstances.
Unfortunately everyone is lumped into one big pot and the typical black and white politics suppresses any rational discussions on the issues.
What I don't understand is why benefits are not replaced with a system where you must attend a building for 8 hours a day in order to get paid.
You know, kinda like a job.
But doing some soul destroying task that makes them want to better themselves.
Effectively what we do today is pay people to sit on their arses.
How does that help anything ??
If you don't attend you don't get paid. Simples.
Cuts down crime as people are not free to do what they want during the day. Or sleep in day and rob at night.
This would also massively cut down on benefit fraud as the person attends and gets paid, can't attend twice!! So more than likely self funding if you account for that.
So why are we not doing it ?
Oh the facts about immigration poster:
1) We recruit people to work in the NHS fro abroad because the Brits are leaving for other countries where the health system isn't in utter fecking chaos.
These people coming into the NHS are escaping their own fecked up system or lower pay.
If we fixed the issue with brain drain, then there wouldn't be a need for foreign workers.
My partner qualified as a nurse yet there were no jobs available after the course. Now there is a shortage of man power. Whoopee.
2) 5.5million live abroad. Good for them
3,4,5) Yep. But they are often doing jobs which british people should be doing. However brits choose not to because it's more comfortable living off benefits that it is working minimum wage picking veg in a field or doing other manual labour tasks. Unfortunately the system has allowed them to stay out of work, through choice and we've had to recruit elsewhere. If benefits were not so widespread, they would have to work to get money.
RE: Upcoming elections - Kwik - 15-05-2014
right benefit fraud accounts for 0.7% of the overall budget and error is double that.
I do agree some people are lazy as rass and have no inkling to work but target them not the sick and disabled be it physical or mental issues. To do that is straight up evil IMO.
Alot of people who are unemployed want to work but due to a minority all have been tarred with the skiver brush......
Immigration we should have a system like Australia that will stop a whole load of bs....
Upcoming elections - DavidA - 15-05-2014
I think that those who choose to come to the UK should be made to learn the language and integrate with society - not have an "us and them" attitude. That doesn't help anyone.
RE: Upcoming elections - Kwik - 15-05-2014
(15-05-2014, 12:49 PM)DavidA Wrote: I think that those who choose to come to the UK should be made to learn the language and integrate with society - not have an "us and them" attitude. That doesn't help anyone.
+1!!! I'm a third generation as my grandparents came over on the windrush after the war. my whole family has integrated within society i'm proud to say
RE: Upcoming elections - Kezzieboy - 15-05-2014
Again, all these things are lovely ideas, well apart from forcing people to work sounds a bit like a 'work camp' to me. But it's all bloody irrelevant, the costs involved are a pittance. Let them doss, it costs the state f*ck all and they get a very basic standard of living (unless they are in the 0.7% who are committing benefit fraud and breaking the law). If we claimed even a tiny percentage of unpaid tax we'd be far better off than if we cracked down on benefits.
Maybe once the rich are paying there share we can make a fairer system for the poorest members of society. Once there is a real chance for social mobility, once getting off benefits doesn't mean getting stuck in some menial job, being paid less than the living wage, or on some stupid zero hour contract, with no guarantee of work or pay just to fiddle the unemployment figures. Maybe then we can encourage people to 'get off their arses'. Maybe once we have an economy based on skilled work people will enjoy getting a job. Once the economy isn't based entirely within the banks and investment management firms in the City of London, maybe there'll be jobs for everyone.
For now, the poor are getting the shitty end of the stick. Blame the government, the multinationals, the CEOs, the mega rich, just don't blame those who are getting rogered by the system just like you and I.
RE: Upcoming elections - THE_Liam - 15-05-2014
(15-05-2014, 12:53 PM)Kwik Wrote:(15-05-2014, 12:49 PM)DavidA Wrote: I think that those who choose to come to the UK should be made to learn the language and integrate with society - not have an "us and them" attitude. That doesn't help anyone.
+1!!! I'm a third generation as my grandparents came over on the windrush after the war. my whole family has integrated within society i'm proud to say
Same here, although not from as far away. My grandparents came here less than 2 decades after Ireland was at war with Britain and they integrated, and brought up their kids and grandkids to love this country.
RE: Upcoming elections - Kezzieboy - 15-05-2014
Ironically I'm 7/8ths British, and can't exactly say I love it
I love Cornwall, and most of the country itself, but there's a lot of lady gardens here, and most of them seem to be in positions of power
But then I'm opposed to the idea of patriotism, as it's just Nationalism to me. Borders are a shite idea, they breed division and hatred.
I should stop looking at this thread, I'm meant to be revising, and my rants are getting more and more left wing lol.
Upcoming elections - DavidA - 15-05-2014
(15-05-2014, 01:26 PM)Kezzieboy Wrote: Borders are a shite idea, they breed division and hatred.
It's probably not quite the same these days but look at the rivalry between Lancashire and Yorkshire for starters.
RE: Upcoming elections - Kezzieboy - 15-05-2014
It's bollocks, we're all people, as DumDum put it 'we're all decended from monkeys'. Lets judge people for how they act, not for where they're from.
Upcoming elections - DavidA - 15-05-2014
(15-05-2014, 01:31 PM)Kezzieboy Wrote: Lets judge people for how they act, not for where they're from.
Great idea. Fancy running for parliament ?
RE: Upcoming elections - Kezzieboy - 15-05-2014
Maybe once I've had a career in Engineering first. Nowt worse than a career politician
Upcoming elections - DavidA - 15-05-2014
(15-05-2014, 01:39 PM)Kezzieboy Wrote: Maybe once I've had a career in Engineering first. Nowt worse than a career politician
[THUMBS UP SIGN]
Re: RE: Upcoming elections - THE_Liam - 15-05-2014
(15-05-2014, 01:29 PM)DavidA Wrote:(15-05-2014, 01:26 PM)Kezzieboy Wrote: Borders are a shite idea, they breed division and hatred.
It's probably not quite the same these days but look at the rivalry between Lancashire and Yorkshire for starters.
Too right. Ask any rugby league fan. Leeds v Wigan is important, as is GB v Australia, but Yorkshire v Lancashire is a matter of life and death. Yorkshire are the reigning champions
RE: Upcoming elections - Tom - 15-05-2014
I just want cheaper fuel... #uneducatedfool
RE: Upcoming elections - RetroPug - 15-05-2014
(15-05-2014, 09:16 AM)RetroPug Wrote: I think we should adopt the German system, whereby if you have not worked in the UK for 3+ years you cannot claim unemployment benefits. Theoretically, you've come to a country to work and contribute, so if you haven't done so yet clearly something's up.
This would create a much larger barrier to people coming here solely to claim without being unfair, and also remove most of the reason for people to complain about people coming over and taking our benefits.
To add to this:
I also think that those on unemployment benefits (out of work but able to work) should be put on a roster for volunteer work in their local councils. They will likely not work 5 day weeks but they will be called upon to do things in the local council like tidy up, maintain shrubbery, cut back bushes/hedges, remove/paint over graffiti, marshall sports and charity events etc.
None of this is horrific slave labour, it would be fair to work 2-3 days a week IF NEEDED to recieve a living allowance if you are out of work and those who are genuinely unable to find work are glad of the opportunity to be able to contribute.
This would remove the culture of being able to claim benefits and sitting on your arse doing nothing and potentially encourage people to go and get private jobs in order to earn more if they're going to work anyway.
Crucially, this would also foster a sense of community in more socially disadvantaged areas which I think is very useful and important.
Secondly, I believe that a cash payment for child benefit shouldn't exist. I feel that instead of incentivising having more children by paying out more cash for having them, we should spend the same amount overall on the child benefits scheme, but give them out in different ways. Things like free childcare so that single mothers can work a couple of days a week to supplement some of their benefits or stay in education. This would prevent single parents in tough economic situations becoming 100% dependant on their benefits for well over a decade, or would help single parents to stay in education and training so that as their kids grow up they are learning skills and staying sharp, instead of raising kids for 16 odd years and then suddenly being at a total loss and having no work experience and no education.
I don't think any of these policies are overly harsh, and I think they all encourage the people they affect to live their lives rather than trying to destroy them/keep them down. In a fair society, all people should get the opportunity to be a part of it and contribute in a positive way.
Upcoming elections - Kwik - 16-05-2014
The only problem I have with making people do them types of work is that's what you do for community service so effectively your punishing people for being on benefits.
A better thing would be stick them in a charity shop you could never do that on community service and other things you can't do on community service
RE: Upcoming elections - ginge191 - 16-05-2014
Stats in from down here
58% UKIP followed by 2nd place, Green Party at 12%
RE: Upcoming elections - THE_Liam - 16-05-2014
(16-05-2014, 03:33 PM)ginge191 Wrote: Stats in from down here
58% UKIP followed by 2nd place, Green Party at 12%
Jesus wept
RE: Upcoming elections - Kezzieboy - 16-05-2014
Faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaark.
RE: Upcoming elections - Poodle - 16-05-2014
Lol standard. Rah rah rah immigration, blah blah EU, i'm voting bnp. Educate yourselves ffs.
RE: Upcoming elections - Niall - 16-05-2014
(16-05-2014, 04:14 PM)Poodle Wrote: Lol standard. Rah rah rah immigration, blah blah EU, i'm voting bnp. Educate yourselves ffs.
Dude did you not know that immigration and being part of the EU is our biggest problem in this country? Change that and all of our problems will be fixed over night, the streets will be made of chocolate, there will be rainbows and everyone will be rich.
Oh wait, that last bit was Labour wasn't it. My bad
RE: Upcoming elections - Poodle - 16-05-2014
RE: Upcoming elections - lolsteve - 16-05-2014
Anyone played democracy the gane? It's quite interesting tryinvto make everyone happy.
The pensions are a problem too, they cane about when very few peopke reached the age to claim bit it was never raised to keep people happy and now there's a lot of money going out
RE: Upcoming elections - THE_Liam - 16-05-2014
f*ck it, I'm gonna start my own political party! With blackjack! And hookers! In fact, screw the politics and the blackjack!