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+--- Thread: Vehicle tax changes (/showthread.php?tid=21739)
RE: Vehicle tax changes - Niall - 27-02-2014
And how many of the UKs drivers are on forums? a very very small amount i would imagine!
Its barely any different in cost, you pay monthly if you wish so no need to loose out on money if you sell the car mid way through tax, its easier on the pocket because you pay monthly, payments are automatically taken so haven't got to remember to tax the car at the end of the year and you can't get a fine for failure to display tax any more. I don't see where the issue is!
Only bad point is you will need to tax the vehicle immediately if you buy one but again, i don't see it being too bigger issue as now there is no disc to send to a registered address, you just do it online when you get the car...just like you might when transferring your insurance.
Vehicle tax changes - martindixon18 - 27-02-2014
Just looked this up. It seems that if you buy a car, as previously stated that you will have immediately get it TAX'd. You will have to go to the post office with the V5 (new owner part), MOT and insurance as usual. I imagine that that will only be for a one month period?
RE: Vehicle tax changes - 306carter - 27-02-2014
If there is no tax disc. When a car is sold privately just say you sold the car a day later then it's taxed to drive away.
Monthly DD is a good idea.
RE: Vehicle tax changes - Grant - 28-02-2014
(27-02-2014, 09:46 PM)306carter Wrote: If there is no tax disc. When a car is sold privately just say you sold the car a day later then it's taxed to drive away.
Monthly DD is a good idea.
Thats a good point actually.
Noting will have gone through the system by that point.
Vehicle tax changes - rocker8742 - 28-02-2014
But does it matter who taxes the car ? As long as they can see that there's tax on it what's it matter who bought it for the car?
RE: Vehicle tax changes - Toms306 - 28-02-2014
(28-02-2014, 05:20 PM)rocker8742 Wrote: But does it matter who taxes the car ? As long as they can see that there's tax on it what's it matter who bought it for the car?
Yes it does matter... Because now the tax is essentially for the person rather than the car - hence it not being transferable when sold.
RE: Vehicle tax changes - Piggy - 28-02-2014
Still think it should be put onto fuel...
based on 10,000 miles a year, 45mpg, at 1.38 a litre, and £200 a year tax, it would go up to 1.56 a litre.
but most do more miles than that, and use less fuel, and pay less road tax, so I wouldnt see it needing to be more than 10p a litre extra.
It would encourage people to be more eco friendly, and those who use the roads most, causing the most wear and tear, would be the ones paying for it.
not some poor guys with track based cars paying over £200 a year to travel a few hundred miles each year to tracks
RE: Vehicle tax changes - Martin306 - 28-02-2014
Nothing wrong with the proposed system.
If people learned to READ, you will see that if you pay annually and you SORN (or sell to a new owner?) the car mid term, you get a refund for the remaining full calendar months.
Seems fine to me.
RE: Vehicle tax changes - Toms306 - 28-02-2014
Full months Martin. So sell a car at the start of the month and lose the rest of that months tax...
RE: Vehicle tax changes - Martin306 - 28-02-2014
(28-02-2014, 07:43 PM)Toms306 Wrote: Full months Martin. So sell a car at the start of the month and lose the rest of that months tax...
That's how it is already though? When it comes to refunding tax.
It's better that way, why should tax that I paid, be valid for some other knob who's buying my car.
RE: Vehicle tax changes - Rippthrough - 28-02-2014
Because he's going to pay you more for the car because it has tax on it!
RE: Vehicle tax changes - Martin306 - 28-02-2014
(28-02-2014, 08:42 PM)Rippthrough Wrote: Because he's going to pay you more for the car because it has tax on it!
This makes no sense. Think about it carefully.
ALL cars will require tax when bought. So buyers have no option but to tax a car when they buy it.
With the current system, who pays more than the value of the tax disc on top of the selling price for a car without tax? Answer: nobody who isn't a dimwit.
I doubt this will affect cars values. especially with the monthly tax option.
RE: Vehicle tax changes - 1616six - 28-02-2014
(28-02-2014, 09:26 PM)Martin306 Wrote:(28-02-2014, 08:42 PM)Rippthrough Wrote: Because he's going to pay you more for the car because it has tax on it!
This makes no sense. Think about it carefully.
ALL cars will require tax when bought. So buyers have no option but to tax a car when they buy it.
With the current system, who pays more than the value of the tax disc on top of the selling price for a car without tax? Answer: nobody who isn't a dimwit.
I doubt this will affect cars values. especially with the monthly tax option.
Exactly this Martin, it'll have no affect on car values at all, as no car will have 'more' tax than the other.
The fuel tax idea is stupid too, as how do you monitor that? A moderately large percentage of the country doesn't use pump fuel anyway.
Just pay the tax as people have for years, or use public transport.
RE: Vehicle tax changes - RetroPug - 01-03-2014
(28-02-2014, 05:26 PM)Piggy Wrote: Still think it should be put onto fuel...
based on 10,000 miles a year, 45mpg, at 1.38 a litre, and £200 a year tax, it would go up to 1.56 a litre.
but most do more miles than that, and use less fuel, and pay less road tax, so I wouldnt see it needing to be more than 10p a litre extra.
It would encourage people to be more eco friendly, and those who use the roads most, causing the most wear and tear, would be the ones paying for it.
not some poor guys with track based cars paying over £200 a year to travel a few hundred miles each year to tracks
VED doesn't pay to maintain the roads anyway, it goes into public coffers.
We already have fuel duty which is fuel usage based taxation.
VED is simply a separate tax which generates revenue for the government.
I believe roads are maintained using the local councils' budgets which aren't directly funded by VED or fuel duty (?)
RE: Vehicle tax changes - Martin306 - 01-03-2014
(01-03-2014, 12:18 PM)RetroPug Wrote:(28-02-2014, 05:26 PM)Piggy Wrote: Still think it should be put onto fuel...
based on 10,000 miles a year, 45mpg, at 1.38 a litre, and £200 a year tax, it would go up to 1.56 a litre.
but most do more miles than that, and use less fuel, and pay less road tax, so I wouldnt see it needing to be more than 10p a litre extra.
It would encourage people to be more eco friendly, and those who use the roads most, causing the most wear and tear, would be the ones paying for it.
not some poor guys with track based cars paying over £200 a year to travel a few hundred miles each year to tracks
VED doesn't pay to maintain the roads anyway, it goes into public coffers.
We already have fuel duty which is fuel usage based taxation.
VED is simply a separate tax which generates revenue for the government.
I believe roads are maintained using the local councils' budgets which aren't directly funded by VED or fuel duty (?)
Nope, not a penny comes from that. Government deals councils a big pot of money every year, which is shared out between departments.
That department has to spend ALL of the money, otherwise it gets cuts. thats why you see stupid signs on the road, spending the whole budgets etc.
RE: Vehicle tax changes - Mattcheese31 - 01-03-2014
there's some thick people on here ffs . . . it's not hard to understand, where as before if the car you were selling had just under a months tax left the new owner could have it, now they can't and as before you can't claim it back, basically it's the government on another money spinner again . . . . . .
Vehicle tax changes - Razorback_Rob - 01-03-2014
Good and the bad
non transferable will be a bitch. Having less on my soon to be new windscreen would be nice (not like a tax disc is big I know) but 1 month tax will be a dream for those that take their car off the road a lot or only want to use for a few months out of the year. I'm all for it except the transferring bit
RE: Vehicle tax changes - Martin306 - 01-03-2014
(01-03-2014, 02:52 PM)Mattcheese31 Wrote: there's some thick people on here ffs . . . it's not hard to understand, where as before if the car you were selling had just under a months tax left the new owner could have it, now they can't and as before you can't claim it back, basically it's the government on another money spinner again . . . . . .
Who gives a f*ck about how much tax the new owner has to pay, I don't want them driving about on the remaining road tax I have paid for.
You're still losing that month regardless. The new owner will also "lose" a month if they tax mid month as well. People will wise up to this, and start buying cars towards the end of months. If they are even bothered by the cost of car tax at all.
Money spinner? hardly. The sheer cost of the tax is the money spinner.
RE: Vehicle tax changes - Mattcheese31 - 01-03-2014
(01-03-2014, 10:04 PM)Martin306 Wrote:(01-03-2014, 02:52 PM)Mattcheese31 Wrote: there's some thick people on here ffs . . . it's not hard to understand, where as before if the car you were selling had just under a months tax left the new owner could have it, now they can't and as before you can't claim it back, basically it's the government on another money spinner again . . . . . .
Who gives a f*ck about how much tax the new owner has to pay, I don't want them driving about on the remaining road tax I have paid for.
You're still losing that month regardless. The new owner will also "lose" a month if they tax mid month as well. People will wise up to this, and start buying cars towards the end of months. If they are even bothered by the cost of car tax at all.
Money spinner? hardly. The sheer cost of the tax is the money spinner.
it's always been an incentive for someone buying a car if it's got some left on it, so you will lose that as a seller, also if it's online now there's no excuse for them not to refund you every day you have left imo . .
RE: Vehicle tax changes - Wor Jimmy - 01-03-2014
(27-02-2014, 09:09 AM)darrenjlobb Wrote: So what happens when you just want to buy a car and drive it away? You have to faff around taxing it at there house / go home and tax it before you can drive it away? This seems rediculas?
However sacking off the tax disc wont do any harm, its rather pointless anyway, especially the fact you can get fined for not having the disc even though the car is taxed online!!
They will probs give a grace period of 1-2 days i would think.
RE: Vehicle tax changes - Rippthrough - 01-03-2014
(28-02-2014, 09:31 PM)JJ0063 Wrote: Exactly this Martin, it'll have no affect on car values at all, as no car will have 'more' tax than the other.
The fuel tax idea is stupid too, as how do you monitor that? A moderately large percentage of the country doesn't use pump fuel anyway.
Just pay the tax as people have for years, or use public transport.
1. Try selling a car with no tax. You'll get less for it that if you put tax on it because you've just made your market share tiny.
2. Why would you need to monitor it? You're not going anywhere without fuel, and it's already f*cking taxed!
It's that bad an idea that some countries have already switched to it and save millions in the process
(01-03-2014, 10:04 PM)Martin306 Wrote: People will wise up to this, and start buying cars towards the end of months.
No, they'll just pay you less for the car full stop, people aren't going to put prices up and then drop them again as the month goes by, people will see the bottom price and shop for that.
RE: Vehicle tax changes - 1616six - 01-03-2014
(01-03-2014, 10:37 PM)Rippthrough Wrote:(28-02-2014, 09:31 PM)JJ0063 Wrote: Exactly this Martin, it'll have no affect on car values at all, as no car will have 'more' tax than the other.1. Try selling a car with no tax. You'll get less for it that if you put tax on it because you've just made your market share tiny.
The fuel tax idea is stupid too, as how do you monitor that? A moderately large percentage of the country doesn't use pump fuel anyway.
Just pay the tax as people have for years, or use public transport.
You're missing the point completely, NO car will have more tax then the next when the new rules come into play which means that the amount of tax a car has will have NO bearing on the value of a car.
It's like you advertising your car & saying "It's still got X months insurance left"... It doesn't matter.. The tax will end when you sell the car.. Leaving no addition in value or attraction to perspective buyers.
RE: Vehicle tax changes - Rippthrough - 01-03-2014
No, you're missing the point, I'm not even talking about having tax left on a car when the new system comes in, read what I bloody posted.
Of course it will affect you, as soon as this comes in, all used car prices will drop. If you sell your car at the beginning of the month, you lose out, because you ain't getting that month of tax money back, whereas before, you would have just advertised it with tax and it wouldn't have made any difference, you'd still get market value and wouldn't get shafted on a month of tax on a car you no longer own.
The DVLA gets a free month of tax every time someone sells a car near the beginning, which is bloody robbery tbh, pay online with an insurer and then cancel it and they're regulated to give you a refund to the day, yet the DVLA can just take a month of tax off you for a car someone else has also taxed....
RE: Vehicle tax changes - Martin306 - 02-03-2014
(01-03-2014, 11:57 PM)Rippthrough Wrote: No, you're missing the point, I'm not even talking about having tax left on a car when the new system comes in, read what I bloody posted.
Of course it will affect you, as soon as this comes in, all used car prices will drop. If you sell your car at the beginning of the month, you lose out, because you ain't getting that month of tax money back, whereas before, you would have just advertised it with tax and it wouldn't have made any difference, you'd still get market value and wouldn't get shafted on a month of tax on a car you no longer own.
The DVLA gets a free month of tax every time someone sells a car near the beginning, which is bloody robbery tbh, pay online with an insurer and then cancel it and they're regulated to give you a refund to the day, yet the DVLA can just take a month of tax off you for a car someone else has also taxed....
But the buyer won't lose out if they buy a car at the start of the month, they'll only lose a day or so. Before the end of the month put the car on SORN and get your month(s) remaining back. That's not difficult, nor will it significantly affect the prices of used cars.
Also, what insurer refunds you to the day? If they do, what is their "admin" fee for cancelling?
They're certainly NOT regulated to give you back insurance money to the day. 10 times out of 10 you lose a month.Unless you bulk buy day insurance? rofl
The ONLY time you'll get refunded to the day, is if you take out a policy and cancel within 14 days. Totally a different scenario to the tax refunds.
RE: Vehicle tax changes - Piggy - 02-03-2014
Has anyone worked out how much the goverment charges us for each mile we drive? (Average). Its quite scarey
RE: Vehicle tax changes - 1616six - 02-03-2014
(01-03-2014, 11:57 PM)Rippthrough Wrote: No, you're missing the point, I'm not even talking about having tax left on a car when the new system comes in, read what I bloody posted.
Of course it will affect you, as soon as this comes in, all used car prices will drop. If you sell your car at the beginning of the month, you lose out, because you ain't getting that month of tax money back, whereas before, you would have just advertised it with tax and it wouldn't have made any difference, you'd still get market value and wouldn't get shafted on a month of tax on a car you no longer own.
The DVLA gets a free month of tax every time someone sells a car near the beginning, which is bloody robbery tbh, pay online with an insurer and then cancel it and they're regulated to give you a refund to the day, yet the DVLA can just take a month of tax off you for a car someone else has also taxed....
Explain to me why used car prices will go down? They won't. There will be no reason why one used car is better than another due to tax, because no car will ever be sold with tax again. So the tax won't come in to any part of the value of a car.
As Martin has said, you can claim tax back as people have been able to do for years, where's the problem?
(02-03-2014, 08:26 AM)Martin306 Wrote:(01-03-2014, 11:57 PM)Rippthrough Wrote: No, you're missing the point, I'm not even talking about having tax left on a car when the new system comes in, read what I bloody posted.
Of course it will affect you, as soon as this comes in, all used car prices will drop. If you sell your car at the beginning of the month, you lose out, because you ain't getting that month of tax money back, whereas before, you would have just advertised it with tax and it wouldn't have made any difference, you'd still get market value and wouldn't get shafted on a month of tax on a car you no longer own.
The DVLA gets a free month of tax every time someone sells a car near the beginning, which is bloody robbery tbh, pay online with an insurer and then cancel it and they're regulated to give you a refund to the day, yet the DVLA can just take a month of tax off you for a car someone else has also taxed....
But the buyer won't lose out if they buy a car at the start of the month, they'll only lose a day or so. Before the end of the month put the car on SORN and get your month(s) remaining back. That's not difficult, nor will it significantly affect the prices of used cars.
Also, what insurer refunds you to the day? If they do, what is their "admin" fee for cancelling?
Unless you bulk buy day insurance? rofl
The ONLY time you'll get refunded to the day, is if you take out a policy and cancel within 14 days. Totally a different scenario to the tax refunds.
This. You don't ring your insurance and they give you every penny pro rata to the day.
RE: Vehicle tax changes - Martin306 - 02-03-2014
(02-03-2014, 08:37 AM)Piggy Wrote: Has anyone worked out how much the goverment charges us for each mile we drive? (Average). Its quite scarey
Like, worked out from the fuel duty?
Considering the duty costs more than the fuel itself. diesel is only about 65p a litre, the rest is all tax. They make a shit tonne from it. Which is why they should simply scrap VED. OR change it so that road tax directly funds local councils to actually repair, maintain and ensure roads are safe and signed correctly. It would be a bigger budget for them and the roads would be mint.
Also, it would help if we adopted the same road work ethic as Japan. Look into it, it's an excellent system.
RE: Vehicle tax changes - Piggy - 02-03-2014
Fuel duty, road tax, insurance tax, tax on repairs and parts and tyres etc...
Its quite shocking.
Thats after considering we have already paid tax on our wages
RE: Vehicle tax changes - Toms306 - 02-03-2014
(02-03-2014, 08:49 AM)JJ0063 Wrote:(01-03-2014, 11:57 PM)Rippthrough Wrote: No, you're missing the point, I'm not even talking about having tax left on a car when the new system comes in, read what I bloody posted.
Of course it will affect you, as soon as this comes in, all used car prices will drop. If you sell your car at the beginning of the month, you lose out, because you ain't getting that month of tax money back, whereas before, you would have just advertised it with tax and it wouldn't have made any difference, you'd still get market value and wouldn't get shafted on a month of tax on a car you no longer own.
The DVLA gets a free month of tax every time someone sells a car near the beginning, which is bloody robbery tbh, pay online with an insurer and then cancel it and they're regulated to give you a refund to the day, yet the DVLA can just take a month of tax off you for a car someone else has also taxed....
Explain to me why used car prices will go down? They won't. There will be no reason why one used car is better than another due to tax, because no car will ever be sold with tax again. So the tax won't come in to any part of the value of a car.
They will....or at least, it'll change the type of car people buy.
I personally wouldn't buy a £500 306 without tax as you've then got another £225 to pay on top before you can even drive it...nearly half the value of the car!!
So I've always bought old cars with tax for that reason...the only exception was the Golf as the tax was so cheap.
Now to get people to buy the already fairly 'worthless' old cars, they're gonna have to drop at least £150 to cover 6 months tax, compared to having say 4 months left where they could keep that market value.
I see your point in that all cars will be equal, but that doesn't mean they'll keep the same value, it means they'll ALL drop value, except something like an Aygo where the tax is only £30 a year (or free for the latest ones!).
It's also a complete pain in the arse for selling cars. I've had to SORN the Vectra now due to the stupid tax/insurance rules. Now while the tax isn't hugely expensive for it, it's made life difficult for the new buyer...as if they collect on a Sunday or evening (when most people collect cars) they can't tax at the post office to drive home. Plus the post office isn't exactly a short walk away from here even if they come when it's open.
RE: Vehicle tax changes - 1616six - 02-03-2014
Tom you're missing the fact that the option to roll the tax on monthly will mean that anyone buying a car will just be able to start the ball rolling monthly in the same way people pay for insurance, utility bills etc.
I still stand my ground on the fact the value of a car will not change, I think it's funny that everyone is moaning on here - just like it or lump it - it's got to be paid - end of!