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+--- Thread: Dum-Dums VNT 2.1TD OEM+ Bianca Estate. (loads of pics and video now added) (/showthread.php?tid=15736)
RE: OEM+ Bianca Estate (Soon to be 2.2 16v HDi) - Birk - 14-09-2013
What gearbox you using with the 2.2?
RE: OEM+ Bianca Estate (Soon to be 2.2 16v HDi) - Dum-Dum - 14-09-2013
custom BE/4/3/6 hybrid
RE: OEM+ Bianca Estate (Soon to be 2.2 16v HDi) - devils_fuel - 21-09-2013
Ha ha moving along nicely then
So are you at the conclusion that this lump will fit in ok or a lot of work, sorry I've not read all your posts
RE: OEM+ Bianca Estate (Soon to be 2.2 16v HDi) - Dum-Dum - 21-09-2013
(21-09-2013, 08:32 PM)devils_fuel Wrote: Ha ha moving along nicely then
So are you at the conclusion that this lump will fit in ok or a lot of work, sorry I've not read all your posts
Yeah sadly been busy. need to go and buy brake pipe spanners.
It will fit on the top and box mount 100% but I'm only 95% on the bottom mount
Wiring again 95% it will be plug and play, will need a slight adjustment to the glow plug wiring and a trimming of the CamPS plug to clear the master cylinder
Running on a stage 2 DW10 95%, running well on that map 60%
Turbo fitting behind the engine 50%
If it moves it under its own power it'll be 100% awesome.
RE: OEM+ Bianca Estate (Soon to be 2.2 16v HDi) - Dum-Dum - 25-09-2013
Awesome, what you doing Wednesday 2nd - Saturday 5th as thats when I'm next off and plan on doing the beam.
In other news I have a 100mm diameter 10mm thick steel disc and some M8 countersunk bolts so can I can start making the turbo adaptor plate. QQ does anyone know the angle that standard turbos sit at as I know they aren't parallel to the engine?
RE: OEM+ Bianca Estate (Soon to be 2.2 16v HDi) - Dum-Dum - 30-09-2013
Sooooo, the car tipped over 236k the other day and shes still running (surprisingly)
Got a 100mm x 10mm steel disc and some M8 countersunk bolts off ebay
Found the center, drew a 39mm circle (as thats the size of the hole on the manifold then marked it up for a ring of 16 6.5mm holes then drew a double cross for 16 holes where the lines intersected the inner circle.
I then decided that this is a stupid idea and bought a 40mm hole saw as puggy had used one to reasonable effect.
I drilled a pilot hole
Then drained a drill battery making the hole, kept blasting it with WD40 to try and keep it cool but it is a mission of a job even with a decent drill, really glad my drill has a switchable gearbox so I could run it slow enough.
Then I cleaned it up and slapped it on the manifold. Got the first couple of 8mm holes drilled to bolt the plate to the turbo but no pics of that.
I took the turbo out and had a test fit and it is gonna be a bloody tight fit between the compressor housing and the plastic water rail. Hopefully I can get it screwed up high enough that it will give clearance but I need to get the plate mounted to the turbo properly and then holes drilled and tapped to attach it to the manifold.
Probably gonna have a day of decorating tomorrow before night shift as my room has been half painted for about a month.
RE: OEM+ Bianca Estate (Soon to be 2.2 16v HDi) - Piggy - 30-09-2013
nice custom bits...always fun
RE: OEM+ Bianca Estate (Soon to be 2.2 16v HDi) - Dum-Dum - 01-10-2013
So plate drilled for the turbo holes and bolted up, the drum of a Halfords cable reel is almost the perfect size for lining up the flanges and adapter, found out that by sheer dumb luck the bolt heads clear the manifold flange and so have started marking out and drilling the holes for the manifold but both drill batteries are dead again so I might finish it tomorrow.
RE: OEM+ Bianca Estate (VNT mounting started) - mr_fish - 01-10-2013
looks a good start...though is it going to clear?
RE: OEM+ Bianca Estate (VNT mounting started) - zx_volcane - 01-10-2013
Good progress there matey!
RE: OEM+ Bianca Estate (VNT mounting started) - Dum-Dum - 01-10-2013
(01-10-2013, 03:58 PM)mr_fish Wrote: looks a good start...though is it going to clear?
Gonna be close on the engine and the bulkhead is gonna need some work but the honest answer is I don't know.
(01-10-2013, 04:02 PM)zx_volcane Wrote: Good progress there matey!Cheers Mate
RE: OEM+ Bianca Estate (VNT mounting started) - Tom - 01-10-2013
That looks big!
RE: OEM+ Bianca Estate (VNT mounting started) - silverzx - 01-10-2013
Can't beat a nice bit of home brew.. Nice work.
RE: OEM+ Bianca Estate (VNT mounting started) - Dum-Dum - 03-10-2013
Getting there with the turbo, finished the adaptor plate, the slotted holes for the manifold studs might end up getting slotted further to twist the turbo and bring the cold side away from the water rail at the back of the engine. I should really of test fitted it on the engine before taking it apart.
Took the vacuum actuator off the turbo after measuring its travel (11mm from the stop to fully open). Had to clamp it to the desk to get some of the nuts undone but got the old actuator disassembled and then went through my box of turbo bits and found a boost actuator to play with. Sadly its got 2 boost inlets but tested it using a track pump and its got a good 20mm of movement at full travel but that isn't till about 40psi. It does 11mm at about 15psi which is nearly perfect. The new actuator is alot smaller so I'm considering weather to use the heat shield off the old actuator or keep it off to save space.
Finally took the turbo apart and cleaned some of the soot out the VNT mechanism. Was well stuck together and when i finally knocked the hot side off the CHRA it dropped to the floor and I nearly lost one of the bushings that the vane control ring rotates on. Anyway had to pull the little locating pin circled but had no luck so ended up filing it flat.
There is 13 flaps in the ring and I wanted to clock it 2 flaps but had to go 3 as otherwise the control lever would drop onto one of the bushings.
Been really grateful for having a tap and die set today, been worth its weight in gold. Cleaned up all the turbo and manifold holes and knocked loads of rust out of them, taped a fresh hole in the adapter and cleaned up the very tight thread on the new actuator.
RE: OEM+ Bianca Estate (VNT mounting started) - devils_fuel - 03-10-2013
Ha ha Pc Dumdum is on the case!!! Good work mate
RE: OEM+ Bianca Estate (VNT mounting started) - zx_volcane - 03-10-2013
I'd be tempted to keep the heat shield, but suppose you can sack it off as you'll have additional air gap
As long as the boost can move the lever from stop to fully open you're onto a good 'un, 15psi sounds good as a minimum boost pressure
Won't it be a pita if the turbo is on a jolly angle?
RE: OEM+ Bianca Estate (VNT mounting started) - Dum-Dum - 03-10-2013
(03-10-2013, 08:22 PM)zx_volcane Wrote: I'd be tempted to keep the heat shield, but suppose you can sack it off as you'll have additional air gap
As long as the boost can move the lever from stop to fully open you're onto a good 'un, 15psi sounds good as a minimum boost pressure
Won't it be a pita if the turbo is on a jolly angle?
The actuator actually starts moving at about 4psi but reaches the required 11mm at about 15psi. Its not at its full 20mm+ extension till 40psi
The turbo is angled with the cold side nearer the engine than the hot side like the standard turbos are but I think I need to run it parallel to clear the water rail. I suppose parallel it'll also make it easier to do the exhaust.
The actuator is probably going to be at quite an angle under the car from clocking the housings so the worry is drive shaft and intercooler pipe clearance.
Oh and new sig. Really need some up to date photos of the car.
RE: OEM+ Bianca Estate (VNT mounting started) - Eeyore - 03-10-2013
D: how have i not seen this thread before?!?!
RE: OEM+ Bianca Estate (VNT mounting started) - samass - 03-10-2013
Dude wtf, why did you delete like everyone else's posts?
RE: OEM+ Bianca Estate (VNT mounting started) - Arron - 03-10-2013
This is a win project. jel of the big blower and adapter plate making facilities you have... seen a gt20s on ebay id love to buy... i have a spare mani too
RE: OEM+ Bianca Estate (VNT mounting started) - Piggy - 04-10-2013
I know...bit random..I keep going to page2 and finding half the thread missin!
good work tho DD
RE: OEM+ Bianca Estate (VNT mounting started) - zx_volcane - 04-10-2013
(03-10-2013, 09:01 PM)Dum-Dum Wrote: The actuator actually starts moving at about 4psi but reaches the required 11mm at about 15psi. Its not at its full 20mm+ extension till 40psi
The turbo is angled with the cold side nearer the engine than the hot side like the standard turbos are but I think I need to run it parallel to clear the water rail. I suppose parallel it'll also make it easier to do the exhaust.
The actuator is probably going to be at quite an angle under the car from clocking the housings so the worry is drive shaft and intercooler pipe clearance.
You going to be using a mbc to control though right? So the actuator won't see anything until whatever target boost you set on that, and then as long as mbc is min 15 psi, bam vanes wide open.
RE: OEM+ Bianca Estate (VNT mounting started) - ginge191 - 04-10-2013
interested to see how you're going to make an exhaust up from that hotside; this is what put me off the merc turbo's for sure..
RE: OEM+ Bianca Estate (VNT mounting started) - Dum-Dum - 04-10-2013
(03-10-2013, 10:43 PM)SRowell Wrote: D: how have i not seen this thread before?!?!
dunno but you've been missing out dude, might even have video tonight.(03-10-2013, 11:16 PM)samass Wrote: Dude wtf, why did you delete like everyone else's posts?Most of the posts are utterly irrelevant and it keeps my project short and easy to read for anyone who hasn't read it before (and for me to read it and find bits I'm looking for) I clean it out about once a month and I've gotta of deleted about 7 or 8 pages from it over time.
(03-10-2013, 11:47 PM)Arron Wrote: This is a win project. jel of the big blower and adapter plate making facilities you have... seen a gt20s on ebay id love to buy... i have a spare mani tooCheers mate. The adapter plate making facilities really are limited to a good drill, a cheap tap and die set and some common hand tools. If your local I can help but just buy a steel plate like mine off ebay and crack on.
(04-10-2013, 07:51 AM)zx_volcane Wrote:Nah I'm going to be using an electronic boost controller but I'm tempted to see If i can actually set it up without so it actually utilises the actuator creep so it doesn't just whack the vanes open and closed suddenly. Might even see if I can run it without a controller(03-10-2013, 09:01 PM)Dum-Dum Wrote: The actuator actually starts moving at about 4psi but reaches the required 11mm at about 15psi. Its not at its full 20mm+ extension till 40psi
The turbo is angled with the cold side nearer the engine than the hot side like the standard turbos are but I think I need to run it parallel to clear the water rail. I suppose parallel it'll also make it easier to do the exhaust.
The actuator is probably going to be at quite an angle under the car from clocking the housings so the worry is drive shaft and intercooler pipe clearance.
You going to be using a mbc to control though right? So the actuator won't see anything until whatever target boost you set on that, and then as long as mbc is min 15 psi, bam vanes wide open.
RE: OEM+ Bianca Estate (VNT mounting started) - Ruan - 04-10-2013
My one bit of advice - don't use an electronic boost controller, they're simply too slow for a VNT - you'll get chronic overboost/underboost situations, it's mostly when you come off the throttle at ~3k and go back on, it'll go absolutely insane with overboost/underbooost as it tries to settle it...
And yeah, you really want a bleed valve for the smoothest progressive increase in boost... I've found that even simply having pipes too long with the target pressure at 20psi will see 80psi EMP and spike to 30psi inlet...
RE: OEM+ Bianca Estate (VNT mounting started) - Dum-Dum - 04-10-2013
(04-10-2013, 10:29 AM)Ruan Wrote: My one bit of advice - don't use an electronic boost controller, they're simply too slow for a VNT - you'll get chronic overboost/underboost situations, it's mostly when you come off the throttle at ~3k and go back on, it'll go absolutely insane with overboost/underbooost as it tries to settle it...
And yeah, you really want a bleed valve for the smoothest progressive increase in boost... I've found that even simply having pipes too long with the target pressure at 20psi will see 80psi EMP and spike to 30psi inlet...
Yeah one of my jobs for today is to go out and play with the control and see what I can do seeing as I can play with it on the bench before fitting it to the car.
RE: OEM+ Bianca Estate (VNT mounting started) - Ruan - 04-10-2013
Just make sure all the angles are right and that it isn't just going to jam up and get stuck...
And make sure you put the can on the right way round, so it's up against the screw stop
RE: OEM+ Bianca Estate (VNT mounting started) - mr_fish - 04-10-2013
(04-10-2013, 10:29 AM)Ruan Wrote: I've found that even simply having pipes too long with the target pressure at 20psi will see 80psi EMP and spike to 30psi inlet...
I can relate to that
RE: OEM+ Bianca Estate (VNT mounting started) - silverzx - 04-10-2013
(04-10-2013, 10:29 AM)Ruan Wrote: My one bit of advice - don't use an electronic boost controller, they're simply too slow for a VNT - you'll get chronic overboost/underboost situations, it's mostly when you come off the throttle at ~3k and go back on, it'll go absolutely insane with overboost/underbooost as it tries to settle it...
And yeah, you really want a bleed valve for the smoothest progressive increase in boost... I've found that even simply having pipes too long with the target pressure at 20psi will see 80psi EMP and spike to 30psi inlet...
Did I read that right, a bleed valve!?
RE: OEM+ Bianca Estate (VNT mounting started) - Dum-Dum - 04-10-2013
(04-10-2013, 10:42 AM)Ruan Wrote: Just make sure all the angles are right and that it isn't just going to jam up and get stuck...All tested and working. Actuator is a piece of piss as it goes in the bracket for the original actuator.
And make sure you put the can on the right way round, so it's up against the screw stop
(04-10-2013, 11:26 AM)mr_fish Wrote:Hoping mine is set right, certainly got enough adjustability if it isn't(04-10-2013, 10:29 AM)Ruan Wrote: I've found that even simply having pipes too long with the target pressure at 20psi will see 80psi EMP and spike to 30psi inlet...
I can relate to that
(04-10-2013, 11:58 AM)silverzx Wrote:Yep because of the way it leaks out pressure it can allow the actuator to gradually open and close rather than whacking it straight open and straight closed again which with vanes rather than a waste gate will cause huge surge issues.(04-10-2013, 10:29 AM)Ruan Wrote: My one bit of advice - don't use an electronic boost controller, they're simply too slow for a VNT - you'll get chronic overboost/underboost situations, it's mostly when you come off the throttle at ~3k and go back on, it'll go absolutely insane with overboost/underbooost as it tries to settle it...
And yeah, you really want a bleed valve for the smoothest progressive increase in boost... I've found that even simply having pipes too long with the target pressure at 20psi will see 80psi EMP and spike to 30psi inlet...
Did I read that right, a bleed valve!?
So todays progress.
To be able to slot a 3" pipe inside the V-band clamp lip I needed to cut the lip off the turbo, out came my favourite toy, Mr nine inch grinder and made short work of it. I left about 1mm of lip as the V band sits on this and it helps to make a good seal. I filed it all off smooth and flat too obviously.
I then put the turbo back together after very carefully marking exactly where the housing should sit in its new position (I can explain to anyone planning the same how to do this but its a bit long so wont post unless its wanted) and then fitted up the boost actuator and wound the stop back a mm or 2 as the turbo is off a much bigger engine and I want it to spool. I hooked the actuator up to a pump with a known good gauge and set about testing for the right position for the actuator rod.
At 10psi It starts to move maybe 2-3mm
at 15psi its maybe 6mm across
at 20psi its its about 9-11mm over
at 25psi its on the far end of its travel at about 13-14mm
I dont think I'm going to see the far end of the travel as the turbo is off a 3.2l engine and is capable of over 300bhp so I don't think Im likely to make that amount of flow through it.
I then took the whole lot out and test fitted it, there was no way it was going on so Ive drilled some new holes and rotated it about 10-15* and its now a much better fit.
Oh and a video of the VNT movement
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtqfNFnnps4